Oil's perfect storm may blow over

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by Carnivorous

Again, I'm going to call BS on this. The article I linked to said that the production at this time of year is NORMALLY 95%. So even if the last 5% is due to government regulation, there's a 10% drop in used capacity over what is "normal". That's called "choice" not "excessive regulation".

And I'm going to call B.S. on your call. Did you read ALL of Brickboy's post or only the portion that allows you to blame big Oil for current conditions? He expained this in detail. Please reread.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

How do we solve this? Two ways: either lift restrictions on the aging small refineries we have (the newest one was built in 1979, I believe) or we build more refineries to boost output.

Again...govt. is to blame more than anything else.

- brickboy240

Just curious, I heard a few weeks ago that it would take at least five years for a new refinery to come on line if we received the go-ahead to start building.

As someone in the field ... Do you know, or can you find out if this timeframe is based on removal of said restrictions ??

ETA: I agree most of our problems are the result of government intervention and restrictions.

[ForTehNguyen]

everyone wants cheaper gas but people dont want a refinery in their backyard There are no supply issues when the heck is the last time anyone was turned away from a station because it ran out of gas. Speculators/Brokers will bid up the price of oil with any lame excuse they can find, hurricanes, wars, whatever. China is buying up a lot but their oil is coming from Africa, our oil is coming from Saudi and elsewhere. US and Saudi have made agreements to supply each other, that relationship has been established for many decades already. China just getting into the modern industrialization game doesnt have these the luxury of these relationships. China cant get any Saudi oil because we're in bed with Saudi already.

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

There is a worldwide issue with Oil supply. Just because we have the refinery capacity here does not mean that the rest of the world does. The raw product for refining is costing us more because the rest of the world is buying both on spot pricing as well as hoarding futures. That's the speculation part that is small in the overall prices today.

I saw T. Boone Pickens on CNBC a couple of days ago talking about this. His answer was very simple. Supply vs. Demand. Not the dollar, speculation or anything else to a large degree. China is adding 5000 new drivers and cars a day. Other countries that are industrializing are doing the same thing.

Originally Posted by ForTehNguyen

everyone wants cheaper gas but people dont want a refinery in their backyard There are no supply issues when the heck is the last time anyone was turned away from a station because it ran out of gas. Speculators/Brokers will bid up the price of oil with any lame excuse they can find, hurricanes, wars, whatever. China is buying up a lot but their oil is coming from Africa, our oil is coming from Saudi and elsewhere. US and Saudi have made agreements to supply each other, that relationship has been established for many decades already. China just getting into the modern industrialization game doesnt have these the luxury of these relationships. China cant get any Saudi oil because we're in bed with Saudi already.

Uhhhh...the price of Oil is set on a worldwide market. That drives prices up or down across the board no matter who is buying from whom. BTW, most of our imported Oil does not come from SA but from Canada and Mexico. Simple supply and demand going on here, Econ 101 stuff. No matter how hard you try to find the Bogeyman in the Speculators or Big Oil you have only to look to simple economics. WITF is this simple concept so hard to understand?

[ForTehNguyen]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

Uhhhh...the price of Oil is set on a worldwide market. That drives prices up or down across the board no matter who is buying from whom. BTW, most of our imported Oil does not come from SA but from Canada and Mexico. Simple supply and demand going on here, Econ 101 stuff. No matter how hard you try to find the Bogeyman in the Speculators or Big Oil you have only to look to simple economics. WITF is this simple concept so hard to understand?

these commodities speculators trade on the world market and directly affect the world market price, its no different than real estate investors hyping up, buying up, bidding up and artificially inflating prices on west coast property all due to speculation. We all know how that turned out.

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by ForTehNguyen

these commodities speculators trade on the world market and directly affect the world market price, its no different than real estate investors hyping up, buying up, bidding up and artificially inflating prices on west coast property all due to speculation. We all know how that turned out.

Land can not be produced. Gas from Oil can. Big difference.

[ForTehNguyen]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

Land can not be produced. Gas from Oil can. Big difference.

what does this have to do anything, then youre saying oil has an infinite supply? The point if is if you go out and buy a whole ton of something everyone needs, you can effectively bid up the price to whatever you want and control a large amount of a commodity. What do you think real estate investors did on the west coast, they went in and bought up everything and hyped up the price to unaffordable and uncontrollable levels. Then it folded faster than superman on laundry day when the mortage market collapsed.

Off topic: You can create land, just look at what they are doing in Dubai, they just created a luxury neighborhood in the water on land masses resembling the land masses of the Earth, they did the same thing with a land mass the shape of a palm tree

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by ForTehNguyen

what does this have to do anything, then youre saying oil has an infinite supply? The point if is if you go out and buy a whole ton of something everyone needs, you can effectively bid up the price to whatever you want and control a large amount of a commodity. What do you think real estate investors did on the west coast, they went in and bought up everything and hyped up the price to unaffordable and uncontrollable levels. Then it folded faster than superman on laundry day when the mortage market collapsed.

Off topic: You can create land, just look at what they are doing in Dubai, they just created a luxury neighborhood in the water on land masses resembling the land masses of the Earth, they did the same thing with a land mass the shape of a palm tree

There's a good article about this here:

When Pickens Speaks...Birinyi And Associates Listens - Market Insider with Patti Domm - MSNBC.com

Bre sure to click on the link with the Boone Pickens interview. For an entire section on CNBC click here:

MSNBC - Special Report: America's Oil Crisis Front Page

It's all one needs to know about this issue. Happy reading!