Don't move to Californication

[rykdawgg6601]

I know it's too late to turn back the clock, but in my humble opinion it should never have been a decision for this, or any other government branch to decide.

[Ed Ely]

To the PV area.

Ed

[Pugs]

Originally Posted by chrisxd45t

So, it's okay when government and the majority are oppressive as long as it's something you agree with? That's the American democratic-republic I guess.

If 61% voted to ban all guns in CA would it be okay since the majority voted for it, or would it be tyrannical?

Agreed. The fact of the matter is that we live in a republic in which the rights of EVERYONE, even the smallest minority are protected. That's the difference between a republic and a democracy. In a democracy the majority can oppress the minority. In a republic, even a minority of one is protected from the tyranny of the majority.

WE DO NOT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY!!

We live in a Constitutional Republic that utilizes Democratic processes.

There's a significant difference between the two.

If you don't like homosexual marriages, then don't have one. That's your choice. I know homosexuals (male couples and female couples) who have incredibly loving and stable relationships. I also know homosexuals who are just as messed up as Britney Spears. Britney's hetero and has participated in hetero marriages (or was it just one?). Does that make her marriage(s?) better than a homosexual couple who've been together, supported each other, loved each other, and made each other better people for their entire adult lives?

What about that hetero couple at Wal-Mart with kids they couldn't afford, didn't know how to be a parent to, and were sniping at each other and cussing each other out in front of the kids. Is their marriage more sanctified than some of my friends who've got over a decade plus and truly care about each other?

You don't like homosexual marriage? Fine. Why should you get to define who gets to benefit from the LEGAL (not moral) institution of marriage? Your church doesn't have to perform homosexual marriages. But why should these couples be denied the legal status of a marriage? And don't give me any of that "domestic partnership" and "civil union" crap either; our history is rife with examples of the inequality of "separate but equal."

Marriage is a LEGAL issue not a moral one. Your church, your morality, your personal biases can define the ritual and ceremony and meaning behind it however they want. There are very real LEGAL ramifications to marriage, though.

For instance if either I or my wife dies, our house, cars, etc... automatically transfer to the surviving spouse. If either of my friends die, her widow will receive any property/possessions ONLY if they are willed to her or she can show joint ownership and ONLY after she pays taxes on this sudden "income" that she's received.

Or how about being able to make end of life and other medical decisions? I can do that for my wife and vice versa. A homosexual couple can't.

What about hospital visitation? There numerous cases of one half of a homosexual couple being denied visitation because they aren't "family."

How about health insurance? If my wife or I were to stay at home or be self-employed, we'd be eligible for insurance through the other's employment. This doesn't hold true for a homosexual couple.

How about just filing annual taxes? Or getting a lower rate on car insurance? Or being able to transfer license plates without renewing registration? Or being able to transfer a vehicle without paying that stupid tax? Or any of the other LEGAL rights associated with marriage?

This is a legal issue of one segment of the population being denied legal rights. Denying them the right to marriage is just as discriminatory to denying someone the right to marriage because their skin color differs. That was a legal issue, too. That was struck down by the courts, in spite of the MAJORITY at the time supporting it.

We live in a REPUBLIC. Our REPUBLIC preserves the rights of even the smallest minority. Even when the majority would like to DEMOCRATICALLY oppress them.

The difference between a republic and a democracy is material covered in Sixth Grade Social Studies, people. C'mon!

[cjive134]

Originally Posted by Captain Jack

It's going to be a nation-wide movement now. So it will be an issue. People of California voted NO on gay marriage. As you can see, votes and what the majority want doesn't count worth sh*t these days.

No, it isn't an issue.This is what is known as a wedge issue meant to seperate people who would otherwise have a great deal in common.

I'm sure if southerners had a chance to vote on abolishing Jim crow laws they would have voted to uphold them, but that doesn't make their opinion right now does it? People also voted for those who took away the gun rights of the citizens of DC and it looks like a bunch of appointed judges think that they should have that right returned to them. I guess those appointed judges are ok depending on which side of the line you are stnading.

[one-eyed-fatman]

This thread seems gay.

[afmo]

Its about time they overturned that stupid ban.

Two guys or two girls getting married has NOTHING to do with anyone other than those involved. Denying a state service to one group and not to another based on arbitrary factors is discrimination, plain and simple.

[one-eyed-fatman]

Originally Posted by Breadfan

And how does that concerns you? If a gay couple want to get married it's their choice and decision. You remind me of one of my friends who trashes gays yet none of them has ever done anything to her.

If that were true why is this in the court system? Why are people in DC having thoughts on it? And then they want to adopt children. Why would they want to do that when they can have their own? OH ya they can't. More courtroom drama. Sci fi at it's best and more for our government to investigate. It's all about lawyers making money. Nothing more, nothing less.

[east_stingray]

Marriage?

They can have it for all I care. I can't figure out what's so daggum great about it. Ironic that the young straight people in this country are moving away from marriage and toward cohabitation while the young gay people are doing the opposite. (no, I don't have a source or any statistics. Just my own flawed opinions.)

[Pugs]

Originally Posted by one-eyed-fatman

If that were true why is this in the court system? Why are people in DC having thoughts on it? And then they want to adopt children. Why would they want to do that when they can have their own? OH ya they can't. More courtroom drama. Sci fi at it's best and more for our government to investigate. It's all about lawyers making money. Nothing more, nothing less.

Uh, why was the issue of whether or not a white person and a black person in the court system? Why where people in DC having thoughts on it? And then a hetero couple wants to adopt children. Why would they do that when they can have their own? OH ya one or both parents are sterile for any number of reasons. More courtroom drama. Sci fi at it's best and more for our government to investigate. It's all about lawyers making money. Nothing mor, nothing less.

Uh... wait... I actually kind of agree with the sentiment of your last two sentences, there. Damn! I was doing so good at being all snarky and sarcastic!

[afmo]

Originally Posted by one-eyed-fatman

If that were true why is this in the court system? Why are people in DC having thoughts on it? And then they want to adopt children. Why would they want to do that when they can have their own? OH ya they can't. More courtroom drama. Sci fi at it's best and more for our government to investigate. It's all about lawyers making money. Nothing more, nothing less.

Its in the court system because there is a highly vocal group of bigots out there who want to deny something to a group of people based on an arbitrary factor. Wow this sounds familiar...has this happened to a different group of people in our country once before?.....oh yeah....thats right....i seem to recall that particular group of people was only considered 3/4ths of a person at one point in time to...this isn't any different.