Saying Goodbye

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Palmguy

Why don't you criticize him at all for bashing other people in this thread and implying that anyone who disagreed with him is a 'chicken hawk, kool-aid drinking out-of-touch neocon with their head in the sand'? I can't remember if that was before or after he was basically questioning the legitimacy of anyone who disagreed with him by doubting that many could have possible served in the military and got the demographics of the military pretty screwed up as well.

Palmguy
Navy Veteran

I completely agree. And we also can criticize those that accuse treachery and anti-Americanism against those that don't agree with a specific ideology.
The fact is we have different views on how best to run the country, but this in no way deserves these onerous descriptions.

[Ride the Lightning]

Oops... almost forgot.

The opening pictures could have just as easily been of a police officer, fireman, garbage man or anyone else. Pictures of mourning are used all too often to provoke the viewer to think of things in a manner that they shoudln't be thought of. I don't like to see flag draped coffins any more than anyone else, but it's part of war. We don't see pictures like that of anyone but soldiers/sailors/airmen. The pictures have become more of a political propaganda item than a true picture of mourning.

[Palmguy]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

And we also can criticize those that accuse treachery and anti-Americanism against those that don't agree with a specific ideology.

Agreed as well.

[Brickboy240]

I don't find his "chickenhawk" or "neo con" comments to be that out of line.

Why? Well...why is it that most people I know that served in Vietnam (like my dad and uncle) shook their heads and said "I dunno about this" when we were going to occupy Iraq, yet some stuffed suit types in DC, that never served (and don't have kids there either) are thinking this was a great plan and were gung ho? That raises red flags...when those that have been there and done that get queasy and those that will never feel the sand in their shoes are all gung ho and pushing their half baked plans.

Its not that Saddam did not deserve to be taken out or Al Queada and the Taliban squashed, but our leaders had a moral obligation to have a better plan put together for this than they did. They owed this to those that were going to be asked to do what they would not do: put their lives on the line for someone elses ideas.

Don't you think our soldiers deserve better than what Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Dubya put together? I do.

Thats hardly un-patriotic.

- Brickboy240

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Ride the Lightning

Oops... almost forgot.

The opening pictures could have just as easily been of a police officer, fireman, garbage man or anyone else. Pictures of mourning are used all too often to provoke the viewer to think of things in a manner that they shoudln't be thought of. I don't like to see flag draped coffins any more than anyone else, but it's part of war. We don't see pictures like that of anyone but soldiers/sailors/airmen. The pictures have become more of a political propaganda item than a true picture of mourning.

Yes they have, and being as you brought it up .... Why do we see so few of those flag drapped coffins ??
Is it perhaps because the civilian idiots running the show might be embarrased ??

Personally, I don't think many of them (the DC crew) could be embarrassed over such a display of tradgedy and heroism. I do think the images have been censored for the express purpose of suppressing the feelings of many in this country who feel we have been led down the wrong path. To have daily, weekly, or even monthly reminders that are more than a number .... Would really piss a bunch of people off, and would result in even lower approval ratings for those who call the DC welfare system a way of life.

No pictures of fallen troops equates to suppression of disapproval.
Pictures of idiots in the sandbox equates to look at how great I am with no true regard for what is occurring.

[Palmguy]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

I don't find his "chickenhawk" or "neo con" comments to be that out of line.

Why? Well...why is it that most people I know that served in Vietnam (like my dad and uncle) shook their heads and said "I dunno about this" when we were going to occupy Iraq, yet some stuffed suit types in DC, that never served (and don't have kids there either) are thinking this was a great plan and were gung ho? That raises red flags...when those that have been there and done that get queasy and those that will never feel the sand in their shoes are all gung ho and pushing their half baked plans.

Its not that Saddam did not deserve to be taken out or Al Queada and the Taliban squashed, but our leaders had a moral obligation to have a better plan put together for this than they did. They owed this to those that were going to be asked to do what they would not do: put their lives on the line for someone elses ideas.

Don't you think our soldiers deserve better than what Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Dubya put together? I do.

Thats hardly un-patriotic.

- Brickboy240

He wasn't talking about the suits in Washington, at least not exclusively. He was talking about people on this forum. It's not appropriate to resort to statements such as 'chicken hawk, kool-aid drinking out-of-touch neocon with their head in the sand' because you have an ideological difference with someone.

[justgotback]

Originally Posted by Palmguy

He wasn't talking about the suits in Washington, at least not exclusively. He was talking about people on this forum. It's not appropriate to resort to statements such as 'chicken hawk, kool-aid drinking out-of-touch neocon with their head in the sand' because you have an ideological difference with someone.

The bottom line is, the OP didn't get the response he had hoped for. It is pretty much as simple as that.

[LUVMYSIGP225]

Originally Posted by justgotback

The bottom line is, the OP didn't get the response he had hoped for. It is pretty much as simple as that.

Exactly my point. Guess he took his ball and headed home.

It wasn't so much that I had criticism for him having an opinion as I did for his grand exit after only a few replies. Maybe he was having a bad day. We all do, every now and then.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

I don't find his "chickenhawk" or "neo con" comments to be that out of line.

Why? Well...why is it that most people I know that served in Vietnam (like my dad and uncle) shook their heads and said "I dunno about this" when we were going to occupy Iraq, yet some stuffed suit types in DC, that never served (and don't have kids there either) are thinking this was a great plan and were gung ho? That raises red flags...when those that have been there and done that get queasy and those that will never feel the sand in their shoes are all gung ho and pushing their half baked plans.

Its not that Saddam did not deserve to be taken out or Al Queada and the Taliban squashed, but our leaders had a moral obligation to have a better plan put together for this than they did. They owed this to those that were going to be asked to do what they would not do: put their lives on the line for someone elses ideas.

Don't you think our soldiers deserve better than what Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Dubya put together? I do.

Thats hardly un-patriotic.

- Brickboy240

Typical well worded thoughts

Iraq has taught me one very specific thing ... IMO The DC crew have forgotten who they work for.
They fail to listen to true leaders. When higher troop levels were requested ... That guy was fired and another leader placed in the position. Etcetere, etcetera, etcetera!!!!

The biggest reason for what we now deal with rests on the shoulders of civilian leadership and I use the word very loosely.

I would trust a Junior Officer over most any elected official, and would trust a senior officer or enlisted leader over damned near all of them.

Politicians suck

[AwPhuch]

Originally Posted by AZXD

Typical well worded thoughts

Iraq has taught me one very specific thing ... IMO The DC crew have forgotten who they work for.
They fail to listen to true leaders. When higher troop levels were requested ... That guy was fired and another leader placed in the position. Etcetere, etcetera, etcetera!!!!

The biggest reason for what we now deal with rests on the shoulders of civilian leadership and I use the word very loosely.

I would trust a Junior Officer over most any elected official, and would trust a senior officer or enlisted leader over damned near all of them.

Politicians suck

Quite true..and its sad when one side of the isle was betting AGAINST a victory for our boys so they could point just a bloody a finger at the current President and say, "see...see what he did...put us in power and we will make it all better...promise!"

Oh and I find "chicken hawk" and "NEOCON" to be a badge of honor.

It beats being a "moon bat" and "Libtard" any day.

"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived." - General George S. Patton, Jr