Saying Goodbye

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

And here we see the selfishness of the immature. We're only worried about ourselves. Who cares about those living under a dictatorship? Who cares about the national soccer team getting tortured because of a poor outing in an international match? Who cares about the rapes and murders by the tyrannical government? Who cares right? You have your XBOX to worry about.

Isn't SELFLESS SERVICE one of the core values of the military? Selfless, as in focused on others, service, as in working for the good of others?

I'm glad you like to paint with a broad brush and throw around terms like "neocon" and "chicken hawk." It really shows your level of intelligence and intellectualism when you use those liberal-created terms that, for the most part, don't even apply.

Go check out the definition of a paleocon.



I'll also come to the front and say that I have yet to serve, but I have a meeting scheduled with a recruiter on Thursday. I'm 25 years old and will be 26 before I go to basic. I'm glad I took the time to learn some things before considering the service. I'm not brainwashed and utterly confused like the original poster, to whom I say: Have a nice life and hopefully you figure out a way to shed your bitterness.

I think jkswiss was referring to the fact that most of the conflicts that the U.S. becomes involved in are not a defense of the United States. Where is it in our Constitution that the U.S. is responsible for fixing all of the problems in the world?

I am not a young woman, but most of the guys I know who have volunteered have done so because they 1) want to get their lives straightened out and want the discipline of the military, 2) want to get a college education, 3) want to see the world, and 4) want to feel a part of something they think is important.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by LUVMYSIGP225

One down. Hasta, baby!

Who are the rest you want to get rid of?

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

I think jkswiss was referring to the fact that most of the conflicts that the U.S. becomes involved in are not a defense of the United States. Where is it in our Constitution that the U.S. is responsible for fixing all of the problems in the world?

I am not a young woman, but most of the guys I know who have volunteered have done so because they 1) want to get their lives straightened out and want the discipline of the military, 2) want to get a college education, 3) want to see the world, and 4) want to feel a part of something they think is important.

I don't know about you, but the book I read, the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, it says the rich are to help the poor. The strong are to help the weak. It doesn't say welfare for the lazy, it says help those who are in need. Who are we, the last beacon on the face of the planet with the closest thing to true freedom, economic prosperity, general safety and security, with the freedom to be an individual, with the freedom to speak our minds and express ourselves, who are we to sit back and say, "Does helping those people benefit us? What good will come our way if we help them?"

What if we all did that at the local level? What if we didn't help those who are in need? What if all charities just closed up shop? What if all the soup kitchens and shelters closed their doors? What if all the foster families said piss off to the kids who need loving homes? It's ok to do those things because those people live here, they're Americans. But it's not ok to help people who live half-way across the world because we don't see them every day, we don't talk to them, we don't see them sleeping on newspapers and under umbrellas on the streets like the people I saw in Philadelphia this passed weekend. I was there to participate in a race for a cancer fundraiser. How fortunate are we to know that we can generally say and do what we want without facing torture or imprisonment? Is it not worth it to liberate those people?

Why was it ok to liberate the nations conquered by Nazi Germany? Why was it ok to liberate those in the concentration camps and death camps?

Where is the consistency?


I'm proud that America does not involve itself first and foremost in foreign affairs that benefit us. I'm proud that we put the well-being of others ahead of our own benefits. I'm proud that we send aid to a country who won't allow workers and volunteers access to help those tens of thousand in need in Myanmar. I'm proud that we send aid there but I'm sure we didn't see a penny from them after Katrina. It's the principle that we have the power and ability to give, help, and serve others.

Are there things here that could use our attention? Absolutely. But if we don't help others, who will ever help us should we need it? How will we be looked on if we, as the most prosperous country and people in the world, aren't willing to help those outside of our own borders?

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Who are the rest you want to get rid of?

Any other America-hating idiots.

[jdavionic]

Originally Posted by SpringfieldXD.40

Well...I do regret it...but a lot of that has to do with the fact that I am 24 and have had several friends serve in Iraq, one of whom was fortunate enough to return in the same condition he left. It's just hard to see all of the horrible things these men have endured, and then think about how easy I have had it back here in The States. It's one of those "What makes me special?" kind of things. Answer: Absolutely nothing...and that's the problem.

Guilt can eat you up, my friend. I experienced similar emotions. All of the men in the previous generation in my family served in the military. Many of my closest friends in high school enlisted. We all had a "plan" to enlist and serve. All of the high school career tests showed that a military career was my number 1 match. And yet my Dad was adamant that I should go down a different path. At the time I didn't understand it, felt it was wrong, and even came close to enlisting anyway.

26 yrs after graduating high school, I realize that my Dad was right (actually I realized that sooner). I think I could have done well in the military, but I think I've done quite well outside of the military too. Life's too short to kick yourself in the ass for past decisions. In my case, my Dad is very proud of what I've accomplished in my life. I have a great wife of 20 yrs and 2 wonderful daughters. No regrets at all.

If you feel so strongly that you want to serve, then know that it is a commitment that you cannot get out of until you've finished your required service. Weigh the decision carefully. Decide. And then don't look back and make the most of your life no matter what you choose.

You get 1 shot at life. Don't waste your precious time & energy second guessing half of it. And, for me anyway, I try to live my life in a way that I can serve as a role model for my children, as I loving & loyal husband for my wife, and as one that has faith in God and believes that our time on this planet serves to sow our future for eternity when that time here is up.

[jdavionic]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Any other America-hating idiots.

I'm so happy I found the "ignore" function The only time I see her posts anymore is when someone else quotes her. Do I dare venture to guess that her post contains some type of excuse or attempt to rationalize the his rant? Nah, who cares

[SpringfieldXD.40]

Originally Posted by jdavionic

Guilt can eat you up, my friend. I experienced similar emotions. All of the men in the previous generation in my family served in the military. Many of my closest friends in high school enlisted. We all had a "plan" to enlist and serve. All of the high school career tests showed that a military career was my number 1 match. And yet my Dad was adamant that I should go down a different path. At the time I didn't understand it, felt it was wrong, and even came close to enlisting anyway.

26 yrs after graduating high school, I realize that my Dad was right (actually I realized that sooner). I think I could have done well in the military, but I think I've done quite well outside of the military too. Life's too short to kick yourself in the ass for past decisions. In my case, my Dad is very proud of what I've accomplished in my life. I have a great wife of 20 yrs and 2 wonderful daughters. No regrets at all.

If you feel so strongly that you want to serve, then know that it is a commitment that you cannot get out of until you've finished your required service. Weigh the decision carefully. Decide. And then don't look back and make the most of your life no matter what you choose.

You get 1 shot at life. Don't waste your precious time & energy second guessing half of it. And, for me anyway, I try to live my life in a way that I can serve as a role model for my children, as I loving & loyal husband for my wife, and as one that has faith in God and believes that our time on this planet serves to sow our future for eternity when that time here is up.

Thanks for the words of wisdom, jdavionic.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by jdavionic

Guilt can eat you up, my friend. I experienced similar emotions. All of the men in the previous generation in my family served in the military. Many of my closest friends in high school enlisted. We all had a "plan" to enlist and serve. All of the high school career tests showed that a military career was my number 1 match. And yet my Dad was adamant that I should go down a different path. At the time I didn't understand it, felt it was wrong, and even came close to enlisting anyway.

26 yrs after graduating high school, I realize that my Dad was right (actually I realized that sooner). I think I could have done well in the military, but I think I've done quite well outside of the military too. Life's too short to kick yourself in the ass for past decisions. In my case, my Dad is very proud of what I've accomplished in my life. I have a great wife of 20 yrs and 2 wonderful daughters. No regrets at all.

If you feel so strongly that you want to serve, then know that it is a commitment that you cannot get out of until you've finished your required service. Weigh the decision carefully. Decide. And then don't look back and make the most of your life no matter what you choose.

You get 1 shot at life. Don't waste your precious time & energy second guessing half of it. And, for me anyway, I try to live my life in a way that I can serve as a role model for my children, as I loving & loyal husband for my wife, and as one that has faith in God and believes that our time on this planet serves to sow our future for eternity when that time here is up.

This is why I have decided to look at the options and weigh that decision. I'm looking at joining the Pa Army National Guard. No, it's not full-time active duty, but I can just about guarantee that I will deploy at some point, I get to fulfill that desire to serve my country, I get some incentives out of it, the wife is on board, and generally, it's a win win situation. I'm meeting with a recruiter this week, well, supposed to meet tonight, but she had to reschedule. Anyway, it was something that was important to me.

Originally Posted by jdavionic

I'm so happy I found the "ignore" function The only time I see her posts anymore is when someone else quotes her. Do I dare venture to guess that her post contains some type of excuse or attempt to rationalize the his rant? Nah, who cares

Does this answer your question:

Originally Posted by Etta Place

I think jkswiss was referring to the fact that most of the conflicts that the U.S. becomes involved in are not a defense of the United States. Where is it in our Constitution that the U.S. is responsible for fixing all of the problems in the world?

[LUVMYSIGP225]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Who are the rest you want to get rid of?

Drama queens that, instead of arguing their point, end their posts with comments like this...........

"I guess I can't stand to be in the same forum as chicken hawks and neocons anymore. Drink your Kool Aid, keep your head in the sand, and pretend all is well in this world.

Jkswiss is out of here, I guess the title of the thread is fitting."

Sounds like a total fag.

Sorry, I thought his whole post sort of shat in the faces of the good men and women that have volunteered to serve. Let's try and NOT minimalize their sacrifice. Am I a "chicken hawk" because I volunteered as an Armor Crewman, and served my time honorably, yet I never saw combat? Would I be qualified to comment on these topics? I don't know. The guy totally rubbed me wrong with that post.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

I am not a young woman, but most of the guys I know who have volunteered have done so because they 1) want to get their lives straightened out and want the discipline of the military, 2) want to get a college education, 3) want to see the world, and 4) want to feel a part of something they think is important.

And then there were those of us who got drafted Which where the majority in the Army at the time I served, and probably of the guys you know who are around your age.

As for all the people bashing JKSwiss....I don't see how you can condemn him for offering his opinion. He put six years into the Navy (as a volunteer of course). He served his country for longer than he was obligated to. He probably worked more hours each week than most servicemen work in a month as a submariner (stressful enough without working 20 hour shifts and doing it again and again between four hours off to sleep, shower, clean up, etc....quite gruelling).

Anyone has a right to criticize the foreign policies of this or any administration when it comes to picking who to fight. In the case of JKSwiss, his opinion is coming from someone who served as one of the "kids" he described.

Maybe it would be worth considering that his opinion is also based on how he sees the issue as one of law......as he said, there was no imminent threat to the US (as is spelled out in the constitution as justification for going to war). Nor were we attacked (also constitutional justification) or even threatened by Iraq.

Is the world better off without Sadam? Yeah. Would the world be better off without a lot of brutal dictators? Yes again. Are we the world's police force? Did the kids that volunteered to serve go in believing they would serve to fight in another country's civil war? Maybe some, but certainly not all.

Is the fight in Iraq worth surrendering one's life for? Obviously a matter of opinion. But certainly JKSwiss is just as entitled to his opinon as is anyone else.

You can disagree with what he said, but to make nasty comments directed at him? He deserves far better. He served with honor in the Navy and he contributed way more to XDTalk than the overwhelming majority.

My $.02

Peace,
D.