U.S. Imprisons more people than China and Russia

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Ed Ely

Until we rid this society of drugs, we are
just spinning our wheels putting gangsters
in prison. Hello, it is no more than a college
of higher learning for these guys and they
come out with a higher degree of knowledge
than what they went in with.

I can't remember the exact dialogue, but this reminds me of the movie "Blow" with Johnny Depp who played a real life drug trafficker (George Jung).

Anyway, he goes to prison on a pot charge, shares a cell with a Colombian with strong ties to the Medellin cocaine cartel and when he's released, he says (in a narrative IIRC) words very similar to (maybe even exactly):

"I went into prison with a Masters Degree in pot, and came out with a PhD. in cocaine".

I wish someone had real answers.....but yeah.....while I have not read the Playboy article, it's an easy guess that the vast numbers of our over-populated prison system is a symptom of the drug problem and our losing "war" on it.

Peace,
D.

[Frenchy]

The promise of wealth and power, will always overwhelm the fear of incarceration. That is the business of drugs.

[Pharmakon]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Has spending all of this money on the War on Drugs reduced drug use?

Mexico is being terrorized by drug criminals.

Yeah,No.

[Pharmakon]

Originally Posted by Edubya

Someday, you can say the same thing about the "War on Terrorism".

"How could it be worse than the system we have? Has spending all of this money on the War on Terrorism reduced terrorism?" But, I'll bet that you won't say it when one of your loved ones become a victim of it, drugs or terrorism!

Well it's hard to compare those two. You see the war on terrorism has to do with homicidal maniacs who seek to cause enough bloodshed to instagate WWIII for the return of their messiah regardless of what our stance may be (not defending the war on terror just bashing ahole terrorists). And the other has to do with something that would exist anyway due to the free will of the people involved. All of the garbage surrounding it will only go away when people take personal responsibility. For example the Heroin junkie will always be able to ruin his and his family's lives by using until they make a decision to quit and get their life together. The fact that it is illegal only adds more thugs and criminalization into the mix.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

The promise of wealth and power, will always overwhelm the fear of incarceration. That is the business of drugs.

Absolutely true.

When prohibition ended, it ended the illicit industries of bootlegging and rum-running, and moon-shining, etc..... (not even sure what all these terms mean exactly, but you get the drift)....repeal of prohibition hurt the gangsters. Brought down their biggest source of revenues of that era.

While it's not realistic to legalize drugs (at least not all drugs - I can easily see decriminalizing pot, taxing it and regulating the sale and use of it as we do with alcohol and tobacco).

As for the hard drugs, it is (as the article posted by Etta and written by Walter Cronkite implies) possible to offer treatment to addicts. Real and effective treatment. Expensive? Yes. As expensive as incarceration? Very doubtful. Possibly effective in cutting demand that would diminish the "promise of wealth and power"? Very likely.

I don't know what kind of humane treatment exists for cocaine/crack addicts (I'd assume something?) - Same with "designer drugs" (I don't even know if they are addictive...stuff like ecstasy?)

But I do know that heroin addicts can be treated with not only the old standby, methadone (which is itself very addictive - but at least gets addicts to the point where they can be productive), but there is a relatively new drug called buprenorphine (sp?) that eliminates the physical and psychological cravings and combined with counseling is very effective. And unlike methadone does not require a lifetime of taking the drug. And even though in rare cases a "maintenance level" dose can be required for a pretty long time, it does not have any effect of 'euphoria", while it still completely eliminates the cravings and drive to relapse back into using opiates. Which of course in turn stops the need for money to buy the drugs, which most often results in crime....often violent and frequent crime. People killed for $20 so the addict can get a "fix". People killed for nothing because they have nothing to give the desperate addict on a quest to rob for dope money.

These hard drugs drive the addicts to commit heinous crimes just to get money to satisfy their addiction. It seems that the real danger in hard drugs is not so much the damage these poisons do to the users (which almost inevitably leads to death), but the more imminent danger to the public that is the source of the money for the unemployable addicts that must come up with lots of money every day. A very vicious circle if ever there was one.

Walter Cronkite amazes me......the guy must be about 120 years old and he's still writing stuff that makes it apparent that he is still as sharp as ever. My proudest "bragging rights" are my son (I'm sure I have lots of company there...a proud parent), and the fact I took a course with Mr. Cronkite as a "guest lecturer" for a full semester in grad school and got an "A" from him. (a journalism course...of course).....The man was a living legend even then, and that was over 35 years ago.

Like so many Americans old enough to remember, I wish he hadn't retired. I get the feeling he wishes the same sometimes. - - "The Most Trusted Man In America".

Peace,
D.

[Dutter]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Who says it's propaganda? Looks like pretty credible sources to me.

At least you concede to being anti-American.

BBC, Jim Lehrer, International Herald Tribune.....? Credible if you are part of the hate/blame America first crowd and a socialist.

People that think like you do are truly puzzling to me.

[Dutter]

And by the way Etta.....it is propaganda.

[XD 9 Loaded Sub-Compact]

Well I am certain that our crime rates are lower than both russia and china. I see our having a higher prision population only meaning that we take commiting crimes more serious than them and wanting to do something about it. I would be for the death penalty but it cost the about the same to house an inmate on death row for a couple years that it would cost to house about 10 inmates for a life time in general population. I hardly see high numbers in prision population as a question of humanity. This only means one less person you might have to other wise put your concealed carry permit into practice with. I also think inmates have to many luxuries, another possible reason for our prison population being higher is in many cases they get better care and know they will be fed when in the joint, a comfort they don't have on the outside. China and Russia I can only imagen how much hell it would be to spend any amount of time in one of thier prisions.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Dutter

At least you concede to being anti-American.

Unwarranted attack. Posting opinion for viewer consumption, is very American. We all have a right to our opinion.

[Frenchy]

Well I am certain that our crime rates are lower than both russia and china.

We really don't know that for sure. We have an "open society" vs. their "closed society".