Your beloved Hillary

[ichy_trigger]

YouTube - Hillary Clinton Explains: Us Rich People Deserve Opportunity

[XDConvert9mm]

Wow, how many faces does she have? This is the same woman that is for increasing the Inheritance tax because "America is a nation of people that make their own way". Wonder where Chelsea's trust fund is buried?

[Delija]

I'm no great fan of Hillary Clinton, but I don't see what she says here has to do with being contradictory.

The Inheritance/Estate/Death Tax (depends on who's talking about it....determines what it's called) is probably the least understood tax of all. And that should come as no surprise since it affects such a small percentage of taxpayers. And those it does affect generally pay it with proceeds from insurance policies taken out for that specific purpose (insurance proceeds themselves are always tax exempt).

To me, the topic usually seems mostly laughable since the tax for some strange reason is objected to most vehemently (IMO) by those who are not affected by it and probably never will be. The initial exemption before the tax even kicks in is greater than the average lifetime earnings of most people....I'm not even sure what it is anymore, but 20 years ago when I was a financial advisor the "deductible" was $2.4 million for a married couple. I'd guess it's higher today (not sure, don't care).

It seems almost as absurd when I hear lower middle class income people bitching about the "death tax" as when I hear the same people bitch about higher taxes on the highest income earners....same non-issue to them.

I realize everyone has their own perspective on taxes....I realize that it's often a more emotional than practical issue for a lot of people...People who are barely getting by worry about what taxes might be when they suddenly break through and become rich.. People who just figure all taxes are "unconstitutional"...whatever.

I've personally never minded paying taxes. I just get aggravated when my tax money is wasted. If I think I'm getting my money's worth, I'm OK with taxes (safe infrastructure, effective law enforcement, strong military). I'm not OK with taxes when I read about how the government spends $20K transporting a $1 part from point A to point B, the $600 toilet seats and hammers and that kind of nonsense.

Peace,
D.

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by Delija

I'm no great fan of Hillary Clinton, but I don't see what she says here has to do with being contradictory.

The Inheritance/Estate/Death Tax (depends on who's talking about it....determines what it's called) is probably the least understood tax of all. And that should come as no surprise since it affects such a small percentage of taxpayers. And those it does affect generally pay it with proceeds from insurance policies taken out for that specific purpose (insurance proceeds themselves are always tax exempt).

To me, the topic usually seems mostly laughable since the tax for some strange reason is objected to most vehemently (IMO) by those who are not affected by it and probably never will be. The initial exemption before the tax even kicks in is greater than the average lifetime earnings of most people....I'm not even sure what it is anymore, but 20 years ago when I was a financial advisor the "deductible" was $2.4 million for a married couple. I'd guess it's higher today (not sure, don't care).

It seems almost as absurd when I hear lower middle class income people bitching about the "death tax" as when I hear the same people bitch about higher taxes on the highest income earners....same non-issue to them.

I realize everyone has their own perspective on taxes....I realize that it's often a more emotional than practical issue for a lot of people...People who are barely getting by worry about what taxes might be when they suddenly break through and become rich.. People who just figure all taxes are "unconstitutional"...whatever.

I've personally never minded paying taxes. I just get aggravated when my tax money is wasted. If I think I'm getting my money's worth, I'm OK with taxes (safe infrastructure, effective law enforcement, strong military). I'm not OK with taxes when I read about how the government spends $20K transporting a $1 part from point A to point B, the $600 toilet seats and hammers and that kind of nonsense.

Peace,
D.

I wouldn't have such a problem with it if this money had not been taxed many, many times during a person's lifetime. A 50%+ final gift to the Fed? Come on...

[Brickboy240]

That is my problem with it as well...the principle of it. This is double taxation. that money was already taxed when the person earned it and probably the interest made on this money was taxed...then they want to take around 50% of it in another tax?

I don't care if it affects me or not...wrong is wrong.

And some wonder why the wealthy take their plants out of this country, set up Cayman and Swiss bank accounts and hide their money. Well...hello!

Some will say' Well..they can afford it." Ok, who are YOU to say who can afford what? Careful there, Vladimir.

Think of it this way, if a wealthy person pays the death tax, that money might have gone into expaning their business that might give you a really good job or some sort of research that might bring a vaccine to cure what is ailing you. That money might have gone into bringing you an electric car or a new building on your school's campus.

Many have this vision that the inheritance like this is always going to some spoiled, do-nothing rich snot kid that will piss it away on silly expensive status goods or to some Enron-type excecutive sort. The media feeds this sort of view, so you're not fully to blame but thefact is that is not always the truth. Not everyone that has money that will be inherited is the Kenedys. Not every wealthy executive is Ken Lay. The media and the left want you to believe this but its not true.

You should oppose the death tax for two reasons: first, it is just wrong because the money has already been beaten up by the tax man. The makers of that pile HAVE paid their share of taxes on it already.

Second, because those that will collect it have NOT shown themselves to be good stewards of the tax monies they already take. Govt needs to prove to people like me, that they can be responsible with what they take...then...maybe I'll feel good about giving you more. You wouldn't give a meth-head relative more cash so he can buy more meth...would you?

- Brickboy240

[east_stingray]

Originally Posted by Delija

I'm no great fan of Hillary Clinton, but I don't see what she says here has to do with being contradictory.

The Inheritance/Estate/Death Tax (depends on who's talking about it....determines what it's called) is probably the least understood tax of all. And that should come as no surprise since it affects such a small percentage of taxpayers. And those it does affect generally pay it with proceeds from insurance policies taken out for that specific purpose (insurance proceeds themselves are always tax exempt).

To me, the topic usually seems mostly laughable since the tax for some strange reason is objected to most vehemently (IMO) by those who are not affected by it and probably never will be. The initial exemption before the tax even kicks in is greater than the average lifetime earnings of most people....I'm not even sure what it is anymore, but 20 years ago when I was a financial advisor the "deductible" was $2.4 million for a married couple. I'd guess it's higher today (not sure, don't care).

It seems almost as absurd when I hear lower middle class income people bitching about the "death tax" as when I hear the same people bitch about higher taxes on the highest income earners....same non-issue to them.

I realize everyone has their own perspective on taxes....I realize that it's often a more emotional than practical issue for a lot of people...People who are barely getting by worry about what taxes might be when they suddenly break through and become rich.. People who just figure all taxes are "unconstitutional"...whatever.

I've personally never minded paying taxes. I just get aggravated when my tax money is wasted. If I think I'm getting my money's worth, I'm OK with taxes (safe infrastructure, effective law enforcement, strong military). I'm not OK with taxes when I read about how the government spends $20K transporting a $1 part from point A to point B, the $600 toilet seats and hammers and that kind of nonsense.

Peace,
D.

By your logic, I shouldn't worry about pollution, global warming, oil dependence, overpopulation, food shortage, or any of a myriad of other problems simply because they don't directly affect me.

After all, pollution isn't going to really affect me... it's only those generations down the road. Global warming? Well, all that (supposed) flooding that's gonna happen when the ice caps melt doesn't matter to me since I live in the midwest 900ft above sea level. Oil dependence? I walk to school and to the grocery store and only fill up my car once every three months, so that's not really affecting me much either. Food shortage? Sure, people are starving elsewhere, but I doubt Americans will be dying of hunger on the streets anytime soon, so it's not my problem, right?

[east_stingray]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Being a moral person means being equally outraged when OTHER people are treated immorally as if it were you.

[bountyhunter]

You can avoid the inheritance rape (tax) if you set up a living trust before you die so that your estate will be dispensed by a trustee after your death. I think the recipients will pay tax on the value of what they receive because they have to declare it as income, but there is no flat gouge on the net amount.

I think you can give up to about $10,000 per person prior to death with no taxes due at all. I think they would only pay standard income tax on whatever they received above that amount in each calendar year.

[bountyhunter]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

That is my problem with it as well...the principle of it. This is double taxation. that money was already taxed when the person earned it and probably the interest made on this money was taxed...then they want to take around 50% of it in another tax?

I don't care if it affects me or not...wrong is wrong.

Set up an estate trust and after your death the executor can disperse it in amounts over intervals that avoid any more taxation.



Estate Planning 411

How Much Can I Save with a Living Trust? What is the Right Trust For Me? Why is the $2000000 Threshold So Important? Can You Lose Your $1500000 Tax Shelter? ...
www.estateplanning411.com/new_website/faqs.htm - 26k - Cached - Similar pages




Estate Planning 411

A living trust will be much more cost efficient than a will and probate. ... the complex trust and "uses" the first estate tax shelter, they can't lose it. ...
www.estateplanning411.com/new_website/epbasics.htm - 29k - Cached - Similar pages
More results from www.estateplanning411.com »





[PDF] Tax Shelter Trust: One Answer to Estate Planning Problems

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
can be headed off by the separate use of the tax shelter trust. Single Tax Shelter Interest Sample Form. REVOCABLE LIVING TAX SHILTER TRUST ...
www.fpanet.org/journal/articles/1986_Issues/upload/10353_1.pdf - Similar pages





Trust Forms - Living Trust - Special Needs Trust - Revocable Trust ...

Download trust forms for living trusts, special needs trusts and more are ... a Clifford trust could be used as a tax shelter that diverted income from the ...
www.uslegalforms.com/trusts/ - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

Think of it this way, if a wealthy person pays the death tax, that money might have gone into expaning their business that might give you a really good job or some sort of research that might bring a vaccine to cure what is ailing you. That money might have gone into bringing you an electric car or a new building on your school's campus.

- Brickboy240

After you finish reading Bountyhunter's posts, then you may also want to look further into endowments, foundations, etc....which is where and how the most wealthy and most concerned distribute their money for the good of their passions. Research, charitable giving, whatever. Maybe you all think it's just coincidence that the Gates Family Foundation and The Rockefeller Foundation and The Ford Foundation, etc...(so many others...some as recognizable, most not) exist. A new building on your schools campus? No tax. Research on a cure for cancer? No tax. On and on.


BTW....There are tax advantages to setting up endowments that actually SAVE current taxation. For fun (and a very simple example)...let's pretend I own a $5million Rembrandt painting. I give it to my favorite museum today. I get the tax deduction for the "gift" this year. BUT...I actually keep the Rembrandt hanging on the inside of my bathroom door until the day I die. The museum gets the painting after I die. I enjoy the Rembrandt for the next 40 years (or two months..whatever) as I admire it while sitting on my throne each morning, get a tax deduction of a zillion (oops, only 5 million in this case) dollars against my current earnings (active or passive) TODAY. Same with cash. Same with property. Same with just a PLEDGE to give something after I die if my accountant is good enough and the foundation well structured enough. I "give" away stuff every year as far as the taxman is concerned, but I actually keep possession of it all until I die. Good for me, good for the recipients of the gifts, good deal all around.

Anyone who refers to the "Estate Tax" as the "Death Tax" has obviously already decided they know all about it and how they feel, right or wrong (no disrespect Brickboy, I know that you are anti-tax on virtually all accounts, so no surprise here.... and my guess is you may be one of the only if not the only person here who may actually BE affected by the tax ...whatever you wish to call it. Nice to have family money. Poor Swedish Immigrant roots and all....that was then, this is now - So unless my guess is wrong, maybe instead of worrying about the tax, you should be learning about financial planning and tax strategies to deal with whatever is above and beyond that first $2.4 million .....or whatever it is these days......meanwhile most people will be very empathetic and bless your good fortune on that first few tax free million).

As for the $10K tax exempt gift someone mentioned earlier....that has NOTHING to do with inheritance...that's money that can be gifted to anyone at any time IIRC.



In real life, virtually no one pays the "Estate/Inheritance/Death" tax anyway. Even those who don't give a cent to any charitable cause. As I had mentioned, the insurance industry has "solutions" that are tax free. And very very reasonably priced compared to the actual tax. Besides...it's necessary anyway in just the most basic terms. If someone inherits a property worth millions of dollars...it is illiquid. Now how in hell are they going to liquidate property within 90 days to satisfy the inheritance tax? Obviously, they can't. So they take protective measures. People with their money completely liquid have the same exact measures available to them.

Really....my opinion may be worthless..... I WAS once qualified to give financial planning information. NO MORE.... I have been away from it for way too long (about 20 years...and rules and laws and "loopholes" and tax codes in general change all the time.). So again...I'm no expert in explaining foundations, trusts and planned giving. Just tried to give some overly elementary examples of why this tax is really a non-issue...

I just do it and pay people who DO know the current rules and regs to guide me (hold my hand really). I'm very small potatoes, but I still do it. Not for the tax advantages at this point...that ended for me several years ago, but as they say...you can't take it with you. I have one son. He'll be a medical doctor soon enough. I think he'll get by with that $1.2 or $2.4 million...or whatever today's tax exempt threshold on estate taxes is... if I have it left when I die - which looks less likely each passing year. "Bush-O-Nomics" has been quite unkind to me as it has for so many. Along with a very expensive divorce - Should have stayed satisfied as a widower batting 1.000 in the "happy marriage" department! LOL

Peace,
D.