Fair Tax Act?

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Blunt

wow i wish i could pay 26 % total i"m closer to 36% by the time everything is added up
also i wrote (33% or whatever was determined to be the appropriate amount) I never said 33% would be carved in stone. A flat tax would hit everyone for the same % of their income. No deductions would be best and no tax shelters at 10% a person making 100 dollars would pay 10 dollars someone making a million would pay 100,000

Cool. The 26% is the number I've seen floated around for the flat tax. Again, the is a much higher rate for the middle class and why it has not been received well.

I like the idea of a sales tax. Like has been said, it gives those on tight budgets the ability to pay less. However, one problem with sales tax is that when the economy tanks, revenue goes down. You know the government will find justifications to raise it a quarter point here and there. Just like local jurisdictions do now with sales tax. I love the idea of the government having to tighten it's belt when times are tough. Gee, just like me.

The biggest thing I like about the Fair tax, is that nobody is exempt. No more under the table, no more illegals not paying tax, no more loop holes and shelters. Everyone gets to pay. Add in all the revenue from those not paying now, and again, the magic number should be less than it is now, because it is spread over a larger base.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Powerman

I like the idea of a sales tax. Like has been said, it gives those on tight budgets the ability to pay less.

Not the way I see it....unless you exempt groceries, health products (like prescription drugs) and essential clothing items.....and who would decide what kind of clothing is "essential"?

Gotta keep warm in the winter. So say a Pea Coat is "essential" in a northern climate. Then is a $90K Sable coat also "essential"?

I cannot see how a sales tax isn't a regressive tax that will be a burden on the poor. Or anyone who lives paycheck to paycheck....they get taxed on 100% of their income while anyone who has discretionary income pays no tax at all on what they don't spend. Some have argued that eventually the money has to be spent, and perhaps that's a valid point....but in the meantime it can be invested and grow pre-taxed exactly like a qualified retirement account can be now (standard IRA for example).

Peace,
D.

[KEVWYO]

Originally Posted by Delija

I cannot see how a sales tax isn't a regressive tax that will be a burden on the poor. Or anyone who lives paycheck to paycheck....they get taxed on 100% of their income while anyone who has discretionary income pays no tax at all on what they don't spend. Some have argued that eventually the money has to be spent, and perhaps that's a valid point....but in the meantime it can be invested and grow pre-taxed exactly like a qualified retirement account can be now (standard IRA for example).

Peace,
D.

I have to agree .... in the example you give the tax is regressive.

Would it make sense to make the point that Roth IRA's don't make much sense then if the US had a national sales tax? In essence the money contributed to a Roth is taxed up front but you invest it to gow it but when you take it it is taxed AGAIN when you spend it.

In Oregon we have a state income tax ... probably like lots of states. I've advocated for a elimination of the income tax in favor of a sales tax but with specific exemptions: medicinals, food, and of course beer. Kidding on the medicinals. Ho ho, ha ha, he he ... man I am funny when I have had a beer and start talking taxes!!!

It seems kind of odd to me that Oregon is happy to tax the crap out of it's residents but tourists might pay some tax if they stay in a hotel or buy some gas. Otherwise they don't contribute in so far as I know.

When I visit family in my home state of Wyoming I pass through Idaho (Utah if I have too ... yuck, yuck, yuck) and in each state I am paying taxes with each and every purchase I make towards their state budget. For some reason Oregonians are so incredibly against a sales tax even with exemptions that I am simply amazed. Not amazed in the sense that they said no but that proposals and ballot measures never have a chance. It's almost like they are defeated before they get a second reading. I call it psychic defeat. If you think sales tax it will fail .... if you do it within the confines of Oregon!

[Pharmakon]

Originally Posted by Powerman

I love the idea of the government having to tighten it's belt when times are tough. Gee, just like me.

You said it brother. I believe that's what they call accountability.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Delija

Not the way I see it....unless you exempt groceries, health products (like prescription drugs) and essential clothing items.....and who would decide what kind of clothing is "essential"?

Gotta keep warm in the winter. So say a Pea Coat is "essential" in a northern climate. Then is a $90K Sable coat also "essential"?

I cannot see how a sales tax isn't a regressive tax that will be a burden on the poor. Or anyone who lives paycheck to paycheck....they get taxed on 100% of their income while anyone who has discretionary income pays no tax at all on what they don't spend. Some have argued that eventually the money has to be spent, and perhaps that's a valid point....but in the meantime it can be invested and grow pre-taxed exactly like a qualified retirement account can be now (standard IRA for example).

Peace,
D.

That is a good point when you don't have any discretionary income. However, they have also talked about the standard deduction. Reaching a minimum before you have to pay. In that case, those on the low end of the totem pole would have a higher percentage of their income tax free. That probably does not mean much to those that don't have much.

One thing that is certain is that taxes do need to be paid to keep this country going. There is no way you can cancel out the socio-economic differences in this country with a tax code. Taxes suck, for rich and poor. There will always be haves and have not. We should focus on a better tax code instead of how we can help those less fortunate.

[Dutter]

Originally Posted by xds&chevys

I saw a report on Faux news and they were talking like this is actually being considered.

The first problem I can see is how they are giong to implement the new act and abolish the IRS at the same time. Or will they start the fair tax and grow it while slowly dismantling the IRS. Or will they und up keeping both and taxing us more.

My wife brought up the point that lots of stuff might go back to the barter system to avoid paying taxes. (my jet for your yacht, my truck for your car)

Just wondering if anyone else has thoughts on this. I want to pay less taxes but I'm not yet convinced that this is the way to go about it.

Sir: You are completely misinformed on the way that the FairTax would work. If you have not read the book(s) by Rep. Linder and Mr. Boortz, you really should. They are short, easy to read and understand and make it clear how H.R. 25 would be implemented and the benefits that would ensue for individuals as well as for business.

It's not perfect, but it's way better than what we have now.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Dutter

Sir: You are completely misinformed on the way that the FairTax would work. If you have not read the book(s) by Rep. Linder and Mr. Boortz, you really should. They are short, easy to read and understand and make it clear how H.R. 25 would be implemented and the benefits that would ensue for individuals as well as for business.

It's not perfect, but it's way better than what we have now.

So enlighten us real quick. How does H.R. 25 resolve the income tax and the IRS?

[Moose13]

With the Fair Tax, you get:
5.62% MORE
spendable income.
$4,328.74 MORE
purchasing power.
$5,260.43 LESS
federal taxes.

Sounds better to me.

[Dutter]

Originally Posted by Powerman

So enlighten us real quick. How does H.R. 25 resolve the income tax and the IRS?

Real quick....? It eliminates them both. In fact, it eliminates all federal taxes and replaces them with a national sales tax.

[xds&chevys]

Originally Posted by Moose13

With the Fair Tax, you get:
5.62% MORE
spendable income.
$4,328.74 MORE
purchasing power.
$5,260.43 LESS
federal taxes.

Sounds better to me.

when I did the calculator on their website (note: earlier in the thread) I got all negative numbers even though the capitalized words above were used. I am just a regular middle-class blue collar guy with a wife and 1 1/2 kids.