"The wealthy need to pay their share of taxes"...huh?

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

OK, then I think you're a great example of why the entitlement mentality does not work. Would you disagree here?

I can only speak for myself. I'm single, and I make it on my dime. I also come from a differrent generation. I could care less what rich people make, or how they are taxed. Neither effects me or my daily life.

[MikeA]

if / when the politicians can make the system so that the "rich" are in the minority...paying most to all of the taxes...then the tide will turn for this country... the majority of people not paying taxes will run roughshod over the minority of taxpayers passing any laws they want to pass because the shear numbers of nontaxpayers will always vote against the "rich"....and this country will be in a world of hurt.

straight flat tax...everyone pays 10% or whatever...no loopholes no nothin...or how about a sales tax....get all the illegals and criminals to pay their share of the tax burden.

mike

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Why are you assuming that these people are taking out a bunch of loans and having a bunch of kids and expecting other people to pay for them? There are quite a few military families that are on public assistance. Were you aware of that? They are low wage earners having kids. Does that bother you?

Yep, I turned down food stamps while Active Duty.....I was elgible with a wife and child because my wages were so low. However, I budgeted and managed, with out food stamps. Becuase I was taught by my parents that we make our own way in this world, we are responsible for our selfs, and to not take hand outs.

It is sickening our country thinks so little of our servicemen and women that we do not even pay them a wage above what it takes to be elgible for assistance.

Originally Posted by XD 9 Loaded Sub-Compact

I've always been of the oppinion that military are underpaid as it is.


EDIT: Infact the majority of Social funds should be redirected to Military and Vetrens.

Spot on, I agree 100%

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by jkswiss

Tax rates from wiki

• 10%: from $0 to $8,025
• 15%: from $8,026 to $32,550
• 25%: from $32,551 to $78,850
• 28%: from $78,851 to $164,550
• 33%: from $164,551 to $357,700
• 35%: $357,701 and above

.

Your tax table is 100% correct, but it does leave Key information out. After Standard deductions, any one under 20K pays no tax, many actually get money given back to them over and above what they paid in.....

Also under Clinton the taxes were much higher on the lower end of the people on the econimic scale....

The Tax Foundation - Comparing Income Taxes under Bill Clinton and George Bush

Individual Income Taxes Under Presidents Clinton and Bush, 1999 Law and 2008 LawFor taxpayers who take the standard deduction and have no childrenTaxpayerTax under Clinton, 1999 tax lawTax under Bush, 2008 tax lawSingle, income of 30,000$3,157.50 $2,756.25 Single, income of 50,000$7,262.50 $6,606.25 Married, income of $50,000$5,085.00 $4,012.50 Married, income of $60,000$6,585.00 $5,512.50 Single, income of $75,000$14,262.50 $12,856.25 Married, income of $75,000$9,426.50 $7,762.50 Single, income of $125,000*$29,378.50 $26,472.25 Married, income of $125,000*$23,426.50 $19,462.50

And take a look at the same table you provied but under clinton.

The Tax Foundation - U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2008

• 15%: from $0 to $43,050
• 28%: From $43,050 to $104,050
• 31%: From $104,050 to $158,550
• 36%: From $158,550 to $283,150
• 39.6%: From $283, 150 and up

So those pesky rich people only got a 4% tax cut, but the comfortable middle class depending on where in the middle class got between a 8% tax cut up to at the lower end of the middle class a 13% tax cut. And the poor got a 5% tax cut. But the poor also got increased tadx credits so they really pay no tax at all.

So tell me again, how 4% cut for the rich and an average of 10% cut for the middle class is really helping the rich only and killing the middle class.

[XD 9 Loaded Sub-Compact]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

I can only speak for myself. I'm single, and I make it on my dime. I also come from a differrent generation. I could care less what rich people make, or how they are taxed. Neither effects me or my daily life.

Thats what I like about you MO people, you guys are of the mentality "Mind whats in your own backyard before you go looking over your neighbors fence."

[Delija]

Originally Posted by one-eyed-fatman

I'm not even going to try and guess how many times this same topic has been discussed already.

I'll guess. And I bet I come really close:

Too Many!

Since I've already stated my opinions on this issue almost as many times as Brickboy, I'll try and avoid specifics and stick to generalities and attempt to keep it short (being concise is not one of my strong suits) LOL

First off, I like Brickboy a lot and I think highly of him on too many levels and for too many reasons to list. But in general I think he brings more to XDTalk than the vast majority. I'd say he's in the 99% percentile of members who make this place worthwhile. Every time I go to the range I say a little prayer for BB since his input played such a significant role in my ultimate choice of a 1911. He didn't tell me what to buy, but he gave me the links to the sources that allowed me to do the kind of research that paid off more than words can express.

But.....I cannot for the life of me understand how a guy who not only is knowledgeable in so many areas, is not at all one of the so many "black and white' party line thinkers we have here, but a free thinking and rational guy....can confuse arithmetic with finance.

Yeah, the rich pay the bulk of the taxes....of course they do. They make the bulk of the money. What could be more simple?

Also it seems that BB has some kind of predisposition that implies (to me at least) that the very word "tax" is in and of itself just EVIL....No one likes to pay taxes. So how about "necessary evil"? Don't we want a safe and solid infrastructure? A well equipped and well trained military?

OK, I know already that if BB doesn't say it (and if it hasn't already been said...I did read this thread, but it's very late, I'm very tired and my computer crashed just as I was finishing my original post (this is the replacement). Anyway, I expect to hear that the whole deficit is not a problem at all from the "typical white persons" on the very farthest reaches of the twilight zone, and from others I'll hear that we just need to "cut the pork''....get spending under control.

I'd agree with the cutting of wasteful spending, but it's a little too late for that. "Typical White Person" insists that deficits don't matter. And I'm sure that while he may believe that, when boiler plate tort software has drop-down menus to insert the term "unborn heirs", I'd say that we are in a world of hurt. And further, since "Typical White Person" claims to be a "poor retiree"....what happens to his fixed income lifestyle when his dollars get to buy him (on a monthly basis) a liter of gas, a loaf of bread and if he's lucky a prescription for some new miracle pill (from our landlords in China of course) that will make the nighmare seem like a pleasant dream? China's revenge for the Opium Wars? LOL

To supplement his fixed income of worthless dollars I suppose he could ask Mr. Wun Hong Low at the local Wal-Mart for a part time job as a greeter for 9 Yuan an hour. Of course he'd have to wait for a decision from Wal-Mart's new corporate headquarters in Beijing...but it's the age of the information superhighway, so it may not take too long. And maybe his grandchildren (too soon for his unborn heirs) to help him with the parts of the application that need to be filled out in Mandarin. (Or Arabic if the store in his town is part of the Arabian division).

What are taxes anyway? Aren't they funds needed to run a country (or county or municpality, etc.?) Yeah, we can cut the "pork"...get "honest politicians"....but isn't that very term an oxymoron?

I'm presently visiting Minneapolis. I've seen the I-35 bridge that collapsed into the Mississippi River. I don't know how much money was saved by not spending it on proper upkeep, nor do I know the cost of building the new bridge and getting the old one cleared away. I heard recently the number $49million bandied about. No idea if it's accurate, but we certainly have our share of researh expert here to tell us if I'm far off.....and there's even an added bonus to "prove" me wrong if someone specia can prove me wrong again.....a win-win situation. I get proved wrong, which makes the special person happy, and I also get a shot at some new quote of misinformation made famous by being posted on the billboard that is this persons forum signature. Everyone WINS!

As for the $49million....assuming (probably wrongly going by statistical probabilities as "proved" by my personal auditor), but for fun let's say it's in the ballpark...That money can't seem to be found to spare for this project....so until the federal government can dig it up, it seems that the good peope of Minnesota will be footing the bill. Now how far does $49 million go in Iraq these days? 40 years ago, they said the Vietnam conflict was running about $2million an hour. With inflation, how much time does $49million get us now?

Also, while our inner city schools are crumbling and asbestos is still raining down in the school buildings, we are shown the nice shiny new grammar schools in Bahgdad our tax dollars are paying for. A nice match to the shiny new firefighting equipment we bought for the Bahgdad FD...while we have city fire departments right here in the good old USofA that are running firetrucks held together with duct tape.

It's all very nice to provide the Iraqis with nice new schools and firehouses and the equipment that those firehouses are home to. But what about our needs? Who's in charge of prioritizing our spending? Where's that money for an Interstate bridge that connects the Twin Cities?

Taxes.....why are people hung up on this? It's a number. If for example the magic number to live "Lifestyle X" is $50k per year for two people (just an example)....what's the difference if they make $50k a year and pay zero taxes, or make $100k a year and pay 50% in taxes? They still end up with a $50K annual take home that gets them their "Lifestyle X".....

BTW....someone made a very good point....the very richest Americans don't pay taxes at all for the most part. No tricks, no off-shore tax evading accounts. No money magically laundered on its way to Swiss banks. All straight-up and legal. The super rich (certainly with some exceptions) don't care about accumulating wealth....why would they? They already have it. They care about keeping it. Safe. They care about getting a nice tax free return on their money, so like China and Saudi Arabia lend us money to give to Iraq, the super rich lend their states and cities money to build roads, housing, bridges, hospitals, airports, etc. And for their generosity, they get paid back with tax free interest. Good work if you can get it.

BTW, I just wrote a sentence I re-read before hitting the "submit reply" button that may be the most bizarre thing I've ever written. Maybe I can get a pulitzer prize for irony in writing. Something....I'm gonna have to save it someplace on my computer where I won't forget it...maybe email it to myself.....here it is once again; is this weird or is it just me?:

so like China and Saudi Arabia lend us money to give to Iraq, the super rich lend their states and cities money to build roads, housing, bridges, hospitals, airports, etc. And for their generosity, they get paid back with tax free interest-

Am I alone in seeing the irony here? We borrow money from other countries because we don't have it ourselves. We pay them back with interest. And what do we do with it? We GIVE IT AWAY!!!! The "super rich" don't "give it away" to their own home towns; they get tax free interest. They lend money to their home towns/states/cities/counties to make improvements...but they don't provide a free lunch even to thier friends and neighbors. It's a business deal. Money for their communities, return of capital with tax exempt interest. Our federal govt. on the other hand, borrows money from countries that don't like us very much, we pay them interest on that money and turn around and give the money we borrowed to another country that doesn't seem too crazy about us either..... Is it me? Or is this more than a little bizarre?

As for the non-stop calls for a 'fair tax" (flat tax) or a national sales tax....I've done this before. Class is out and I'm tired and bored and mostly astounded that people can be fooled into thinking this is anything but a rape of the poor.

Of all the possible kind of taxes discussed, these are far and away the most regressive kinds of taxes there are These taxes would be the most harshly unfair to the poor imaginable. They would be almost meaningless to the rich, but a tremendous burden to the poor. I've explained it before. I'm not good at using the search function, but it's all in there....

It would seem on the surface that it's impossible to run the country on revenue bonds, but they also say that nothing is impossible. Maybe I can figure something out that would put me in the history books. LOL

Peace,
D.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

The "rich" pay a larger percentage of taxes because they have more income.

Even at a flat rate, of say 10% the rich would still pay a whole lot more in taxes than the middle class or poor.

20K a year in come at 10% tax is 2000 dollars

200K a year income at 10% is 20,000 dollars

That is pretty darn fair

But what we have is

A couple making 40K pays 10%, or 4000 dollars in tax

A couple making 100K pays 28% or 28,000 dollars in tax

That is far from fair. Especially if say the first couple is a school teacher who is the bread winner, gets 3 months a year off

The Second couple , the husband works 65 to 70 hours a week 49 weeks a year.

Why is the second guy being punished for killing him self to try to make a good living for his family????

Originally Posted by Etta Place

You're another one. What makes you think that all poor people are living beyond their means?

Well, let see I go to the grociery store, I see a lady pay for 250 worth of grociers on food stamps, then loads them into her Caddy Escalde.

I go to the grociery store again and see a lady buy a lot of grociers on food stamps and load them into her new Expadition

Me, well I make a pretty darn good living, and can not afford to have a new caddy or 50K suv.....

But you are correct not all poor people live beyond their means, however there are a large number who do.

Originally Posted by Etta Place

I'm not in favor of big social programs to exclusively benefit the military. And, why should the military have such a prominent place in our society anyway? This is a democratic republic not a fascist military dictatorship.

I am not in favor of any social programs....None.

Militrary people earn their retirement, some never get it becuase they gave their life for you to live in a free country. Many other are disabled for the rest of their life....they earned what they get, it is not a social program.

Could be the military deserves to hold a promenate place, because My Grandfather and many like him, kept America from Speaking Japanees, or German

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by Delija

Taxes.....why are people hung up on this? It's a number. If for example the magic number to live "Lifestyle X" is $50k per year for two people (just an example)....what's the difference if they make $50k a year and pay zero taxes, or make $100k a year and pay 50% in taxes? They still end up with a $50K annual take home that gets them their "Lifestyle X".....

Peace,
D.

Ok I will sum it up what the differance is.....

Ok couple A in your exmpale, make 50 K and keep 50K, they are both school teachers.....get weekends, holidays and the summer off.

Couple B, they make 100K, he is a plant manager, she is a store manger. They work 50 to 60 hours a week each, and many week ends. They each get two weeks off a year, but they only get to keep 50K

What is the insentive to work harder, longer and more challenging job?

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

We must avoid the suspicion of those that are less successful by spreading the wealth to all so they'll feel better about themselves, right?

No, I don't agree with that. What I favor is a tax system that is simple, fair and non-punitive to anyone. I would prefer no loopholes, no special favors. Everyone (people, corporations) pays a flat amount with a break for those who make less than $50,000, let's say. I also favor a carbon tax.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by FLSTFI Dave

It is sickening our country thinks so little of our servicemen and women that we do not even pay them a wage above what it takes to be elgible for assistance.

Yes, it is sickening.