"The unteachable ignorance of the red states"

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by Delija

I'm not here to defend SF....but I did live there for a short period of time, and this makes no sense to me. What does 'validation" mean?

Example? Again, I have no idea what you even mean.

Again...no idea what this means. If SF was attacked, the citizens would lay down their arms? Ridiculous. SF is part of the US. The people who live there are Americans. Americans have always fought to be free. No matter where they were from. When Pearl Harbor was attacked, the lines in SF at the enlistment centers were as long or longer than anywhere else in the US. SF was also the staging point for almost everyone who was sent to fight in Vietnam and SE Asia. SF had it's anti-war demonstrations in the later stages of that conflict, but so did virtually everywhere else in America. Small towns, large cities....everywhere.

LOL....have a single example? Or just an explanation? Lot's of assertions, but no facts. Not much sense either. I'm struggling just to even understand your post, let alone figure out if your points are valid.

Interesting...considering that San Francisco has perhaps the largest military presence on the West Coast.

Rejection of 'traditional values'? What are "traditional values'? How to you qualify or quantify something that is completely subjective?

"Rejection of a willingness to fight to preserve .....(edit)...-Really? People from SF are less patriotic than people from elsewhere? This assertion is based on what? Less people from SF serving in the military? No, I know that can't be it. Less willing to serve in government? Nope, that's not the case either. What is?

Less willing to "defend oneself'? No idea what that means.

Less willing to 'defend capitalism"? Not only ridiculous on the surface, but SF is the financial capital of the Western region of the US.

Define "traditional values". Again you try and quantify and qualify a matter of subjectivity.

My favorite...I've seen all kind of religious evangelicalism. I've never seen anyone attempt to "spread the ideals" you make allusions to (but don't define) with the kind of zealotry we see in tent revivals....(or other such events with the sole purpose of "spreading ideals").

Peace,
D.

Yes, I would like to see more specificity too. As it stands, these concepts are vague.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Many progressives, liberals and Democrats have been frustrated with the Republican Party's ability to win elections based on a type of fake populism - that is, a populism not based on economic issues, which has been the traditional definition, but one based on cultural issues. A book was published in 2004 by Thomas Frank called, "What's the Matter With Kansas?" This book has been very influential among liberals and members of the Democratic Party in explaining why people of modest means vote Republican. The author thinks a lot of the reason is because of people buying into this cultural populism argument. I will quote a description of the book from Wikipedia:

Could not possible be that people of modist means realized that, Reagon Tax cuts put more money in their pocket. Then the Bush tax cuts also put more money in their pockets.

Bush cut the taxes 5% on those making less than 20K, and most people between 20K and 100K saw a tax savings of 2000 dollars if single and 3 to 4000 dollars if married. Those over 100K only got a 1% tax cut.

Most people of modest means do not believe in hand outs, they believe in working to get what they need. Democrats seem to believe in Hand outs.

My self for example, when my first daughter was born, and I was active duty Navy, I was elgible for food stamps. I refuse the hand out.

Also as your quotes point out, Democrat far left started pushing issues that those of us with modest means are not interested in, the free life style of the 60's and the gay stuff.

[mgeoffriau]

I can't say that I want to attempt the research necessary to substantiate something as nebulous as a city culture, but I will say that I have several friends that live within 20 miles of San Francisco. They are all politically more liberal than I am, and even they talk about the left-wing freaks and activists that dominate San Francisco.

Take it for what it's worth.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by mgeoffriau

I can't say that I want to attempt the research necessary to substantiate something as nebulous as a city culture, but I will say that I have several friends that live within 20 miles of San Francisco. They are all politically more liberal than I am, and even they talk about the left-wing freaks and activists that dominate San Francisco.

Take it for what it's worth.

Sort of my point. U Berkley is known as the bedrock of Far left liberalism.

[Frenchy]

Could not possible be that people of modist means realized that, Reagon Tax cuts put more money in their pocket. Then the Bush tax cuts also put more money in their pockets.

The problem Dave, is that tax cuts with out controling spending is not a financial advantage to anyone.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by FLSTFI Dave

You better check again, San Fransico now has almost zero military personel. San Fransico hates the military. Berkely has tried to even kick the Military recruiting centers out of town. They backed down when several congressmen sought to stop fedral funding to the area if recruiters were kicked out.

Traditional values, marriage is between a man and woman, for example.

I would not want my children taught that two mommies is OK, which they teach in SF.

Well, I stand corrected about the military presense in SF....I travelled from Travis AFB in 1970. I did not know so many of the SF military installations were closed.

That aside....Berkeley being a center for left wing expression is nothing new. They were having "sit-ins" in the mid 1960s for various causes...I hadn't even heard the term before then.

Traditional values...marriage is between a man and a woman? It isn't the same everywhere?

You say "I would not want my children taught that two mommie is OK"...(which they teach in SF)? Again, I'm just confused. What does that mean? My son had "two mommies" as teachers. In fact my wife was a "mommie" who taught in a classroom with another 'mommie'. So two mommies. I'm guessing that isn't what you mean, but from the way you wrote it, it's hard to tell.

Meanwhile, assuming you meant to say that they tell kids it's OK to grow up in a home with two women who are "life partners" (or whatever the current politically correct term is), why would you care? How would it affect you (or your children) other than to make them aware that alternative lifestyles are a part of society and are not "evil". Just different.

As for the statement 'San Francisco hates the military"...LOL..how can a place have an emotion?

I'll have to try and remember to ask my son how he was greeted in SF when he arrived there during "Fleet Week"....IIRC, it was with greetings very far removed from "hate". LOL

Peace,
D.

[Etta Place]

Okay, shall we stipulate here that San Francisco is

1) A large and old California city
2) The financial center of California
3) A very wealthy city
4) A city with a large gay male population (don't know about female)
5) A very foggy and chilly city
6) Sits next door to a town with a large state university that tends to be quite liberal
7) Has a large liberal population that doesn't like the U.S. war machine
A city very near California's wine country
9) A city near a very exclusive and wealthy area called Marin County
10) A city near where a lot of the human potential movement began
11) A city with a reputation for people sitting around in hottubs and drinking Chardonnay
12) A city with a diverse international population
13) A city with some sometimes very good and sometimes very bad sports teams
14) A city that is very near the center of California's high tech industry - both computer and medical

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Okay, shall we stipulate here that San Francisco is

1) A large and old California city
2) The financial center of California
3) A very wealthy city
4) A city with a large gay male population (don't know about female)
5) A very foggy and chilly city
6) Sits next door to a town with a large state university that tends to be quite liberal
7) Has a large liberal population that doesn't like the U.S. war machine
A city very near California's wine country
9) A city near a very exclusive and wealthy area called Marin County
10) A city near where a lot of the human potential movement began
11) A city with a reputation for people sitting around in hottubs and drinking Chardonnay
12) A city with a diverse international population
13) A city with some sometimes very good and sometimes very bad sports teams
14) A city that is very near the center of California's high tech industry - both computer and medical

Oh! And 15) A city that sits right on top of the San Andreas fault line and has been the scene of the U.S. largest earthquakes (I believe)

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Okay, shall we stipulate here that San Francisco is

1) A large and old California city
2) The financial center of California
3) A very wealthy city
4) A city with a large gay male population (don't know about female)
5) A very foggy and chilly city
6) Sits next door to a town with a large state university that tends to be quite liberal
7) Has a large liberal population that doesn't like the U.S. war machine
A city very near California's wine country
9) A city near a very exclusive and wealthy area called Marin County
10) A city near where a lot of the human potential movement began
11) A city with a reputation for people sitting around in hottubs and drinking Chardonnay
12) A city with a diverse international population
13) A city with some sometimes very good and sometimes very bad sports teams
14) A city that is very near the center of California's high tech industry - both computer and medical

15) A city west of the Mississippi where you can find good restaurants.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Oh! And 15) scene of the U.S. largest earthquakes (I believe)

I believe Alaska and Missouri hold those (dubious) honors.

Peace,
D.