Patriot Act cuts into library privacy

[Krackels]

2theadvocate.com | News | Patriot Act cuts into library privacy — Baton Rouge, LA

So now the government is free to peruse your reading and borrowing records (and browsing) for the libraries.

God help those that take out books on Islam for research, they're probably on a government watch list now.

Do we feel safer?

At what point can we say that enough is enough, I'm not sacrificing any more liberties in the name of 'feeling safe'?

[Judge]

Lol.. I can't really say that having the librarian or the NSA know what books I checked out are an invasion of my privacy.

I own books by Rousseau, Hobbs, Smith, Marx, Darwin, Spurgeon, Edwards... all kinda radical kinda guys. If the NSA wants the list, it's no skin off of my neck. But if there's people checking out books on bombmaking, ararchy etc, maybe they deserve a little closer attention. I dunno.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Krackels

2theadvocate.com | News | Patriot Act cuts into library privacy — Baton Rouge, LA

So now the government is free to peruse your reading and borrowing records (and browsing) for the libraries.

God help those that take out books on Islam for research, they're probably on a government watch list now.

Do we feel safer?

At what point can we say that enough is enough, I'm not sacrificing any more liberties in the name of 'feeling safe'?

[afmo]

they already keep a log of what you rent...they keep of log of what you rent at the movie store too, and they did it before the patriot act. dunno why this is news...think i should be worried about my standing weekly rental of red dawn?? hehe

[Judge]

I think it's important to remember, only our homes are protected from searches... those things we do in public, in a public area, are not constitutionally protected. If you don't want someone finding out what you do in public, do it in your house.

[Krackels]

Originally Posted by Judge

I think it's important to remember, only our homes are protected from searches... those things we do in public, in a public area, are not constitutionally protected. If you don't want someone finding out what you do in public, do it in your house.

But I'd think the bridge from the Library to the marketplace isn't far off...

First they want records from the library, then it'll be from Amazon.

You need to ask yourself this question:
Can I walk into the Library and ask for the list of books, movies, and items borrowed by my neighbor? Why should the government not be held to the same standards as ordinary people? Is our government better than our people and thus above reproach?

If it's that important they can always get a warrant/court order/subpoena for the items they want, why should we be just giving it to them without making them prove that it's necessary.

You could say the same thing about firearm registration. You purchase firearms and you have to fill out the form 4473 (so that's the government involvement), so why should the government be barred from having full access to those records if they want them?

After all, it'll make us feel safer.

[JeffXD]

Libraries still have books? I thought they were just a place for homeless people to hang out in these days.

[Judge]

Straw man...

I never implied or stated that checking out library books or communicating over the internet was constitutionally protected (I don't think they are.) But gun ownership is. I don't think though, in the gun process, that the gov't keeps those records, and I would argue that while I support checking criminal backgrounds, I don't think the records should be preserved by the gov't due to 2A concerns.

I've also never argued anything about 'feeling' safer.

Originally Posted by Krackels

But I'd think the bridge from the Library to the marketplace isn't far off...

First they want records from the library, then it'll be from Amazon.

You need to ask yourself this question:
Can I walk into the Library and ask for the list of books, movies, and items borrowed by my neighbor? Why should the government not be held to the same standards as ordinary people? Is our government better than our people and thus above reproach?

If it's that important they can always get a warrant/court order/subpoena for the items they want, why should we be just giving it to them without making them prove that it's necessary.

You could say the same thing about firearm registration. You purchase firearms and you have to fill out the form 4473 (so that's the government involvement), so why should the government be barred from having full access to those records if they want them?

After all, it'll make us feel safer.

[Brickboy240]

Its a double edged sword, is it not?

If another 9-11 styled event happens and they can trace the badguy's bombmaking skills to learning it in a public library, some around here will be crying "why aren't they watching for this?"

I don't know if I have a problem with this. In the end...if you're REALLY not planning something illegal...you probably have nothing to worry about.

- brickboy240

[bountyhunter]

Originally Posted by Judge

Lol.. I can't really say that having the librarian or the NSA know what books I checked out are an invasion of my privacy.

Yes, you certainly can say that if you choose to make an honest statement. The fact that you deny such an obvious fact says an awful lot about how far you have to twist reality to defend the Bush admin's assault on personal liberty.

It isn't as egregious as randomly searching houses or throwing people in prison without charges..... but, of course, that could never happen.... unless you have dark skin and a Muslim surname.

[bountyhunter]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

Its a double edged sword, is it not?

If another 9-11 styled event happens and they can trace the badguy's bombmaking skills to learning it in a public library, some around here will be crying "why aren't they watching for this?"

I don't know if I have a problem with this. In the end...if you're REALLY not planning something illegal...you probably have nothing to worry about.

- brickboy240

The truth is, the 9-11 hijackers sent up a littany of red flags which could have and should have been noticed by our intel services. It took the "perfect storm" of incompetence, arrogance, and non-cooperation among those agencies to make 9-11 happen. That's the truly tragic thing about this, safeguarding our shores doesn't take the destruction of the Bill of Rights, it just requires the agencies in palce do a marginal job of what they were supposed to be doing in the first place.