Global Warming- NOT ABOUT MAN MADE GW!

[Powerman]

I do not want this to be another debate on man made GW.

Let's start with a few points:

I believe man has some contribution, but it isn't my point.
I don't believe we have enough info on other contributors.
I don't believe we have near enough info to say we can do anything about it.
I don't think we have accurate predictions about what exactly it will mean.

Now this is what the thread is about:

Any idiot with a brain can see the world is in a warming trend.
Climates will shift.
If predictions are half true, sea level will rise.
The U.S. stands to be impacted considerably in say the next 50 years.

This is what I want to know. Forget about environ-nazis, liberal wackos and school system indoctrination on man made GW. What I am curious about is IF this is simply a natural cycle, the world is still warming and ice caps are melting. With the current financial woes, and our current disire of Globalization, do you think the U.S. is heading for trouble in the comming decades due to climate change? We stand to have some considerable weather disasters and large coastland property losses. Just curious what you think will happen to the U.S.

[trik396]

No one can say for sure if it is a natural cycle or anything else for sure. It's all a guessing game and opinion. And my opinion is it's just natural change. There have been periods of time when the earth had warmer temps and colder temps. The continents were all once connected. Dinosaurs once roamed the earth. Things change. It's the only constant we have really. Change.

Keep the coal burning...

[AZXD]

Choose your future.
Maps of The Future

[jmichna]

My take on this, is modest warming offers more benefits than disadvantages.

I think there is no dispute by anyone that there have been warming and cooling cycles throughout geological history, and even during recorded history (roughly the last 4000 years), and that the cycle lasts roughly 1500 years.

There's good evidence in history, when you compare the success of civilizations during previous warm and cold periods. I can think of one example: The Roman Empire expanded during a prolonged warm period. The Dark Ages (after the fall of Rome) occurred during a cold period. I do not mean to imply that GW was the cause of Rome's success, nor that GC caused Rome's fall, as correlation is not the same as causation. But, we need to consider that a warmer, beneficial food growing period helped support Roman progress and expansion, and cooler weather, reducing food production, surely didn't help maintain the empire.

The book "Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1500 Years" by Avery and Singer covers the history angle very well, and gives many such examples.

We do know that more people die annually due to cold weather than warm weather (by a factor of about 4 to 1). Warmer weather will expand farmlands, but concurrently may increase water demand... a lot of GW projected scenarios include increased rain because of GW, so that may counterbalance water needs.

Energy demand might be a wash: less energy needed to heat in milder winters, but more energy used to cool in summer. Best estimates of sea level rise seem to be on the order of a few inches over the next century, so the amount of land flooded, and the areas experiencing flooding, likely will not be greatly impacted.

This is an interesting topic, and I look forward to to see what others come up with.

[bigun]

Smoke and mirrors, use for political advantage, use to raise taxes, natural cycle, use as a way to show intellectual superiority because we all know that people that dont believe in Global Warming or the newest catch phrase Global climate change to cover both chances are knuckle dragging neanderthalls that belong in insurance adds. Let it go the temps are going to change weather we are effecting it or not and there isnt a damn thing we can do about it.

[NewXD40fun]

There is absolutely nothing the USA, the U.N. or the world as a whole can do to stop or reverse global warming.

Can any amount of money mitigate the possible bad consequences (rising ocean levels) of GW that you present? How can we hold back the ocean? Won't Africa be mad at us for building a levy around ourselves thereby raising world ocean levels even further?


Tom

[Don]

I don't see it. I would prefer it, but I still do not see that good science shows it yet.

Originally Posted by Powerman

Any idiot with a brain can see the world is in a warming trend.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Don

I don't see it. I would prefer it, but I still do not see that good science shows it yet.

How can you say that? First time for a Northern passage in recorded history. No glaciers in Glacier National Park. Glaciers moving faster than ever, ice shelfs melting. Doesn't mean you have to believe we are causing it, but come on.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by jmichna

My take on this, is modest warming offers more benefits than disadvantages.

I think there is no dispute by anyone that there have been warming and cooling cycles throughout geological history, and even during recorded history (roughly the last 4000 years), and that the cycle lasts roughly 1500 years.

There's good evidence in history, when you compare the success of civilizations during previous warm and cold periods. I can think of one example: The Roman Empire expanded during a prolonged warm period. The Dark Ages (after the fall of Rome) occurred during a cold period. I do not mean to imply that GW was the cause of Rome's success, nor that GC caused Rome's fall, as correlation is not the same as causation. But, we need to consider that a warmer, beneficial food growing period helped support Roman progress and expansion, and cooler weather, reducing food production, surely didn't help maintain the empire.

The book "Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1500 Years" by Avery and Singer covers the history angle very well, and gives many such examples.

We do know that more people die annually due to cold weather than warm weather (by a factor of about 4 to 1). Warmer weather will expand farmlands, but concurrently may increase water demand... a lot of GW projected scenarios include increased rain because of GW, so that may counterbalance water needs.

Energy demand might be a wash: less energy needed to heat in milder winters, but more energy used to cool in summer. Best estimates of sea level rise seem to be on the order of a few inches over the next century, so the amount of land flooded, and the areas experiencing flooding, likely will not be greatly impacted.

This is an interesting topic, and I look forward to to see what others come up with.

Interesting. There have been many cycles and we actually know what caused most of them, or at least pretty sure. We know there are 100,000 year cycles when the Earth's orbit changes. Of which we are at the peak now. volcanic periods and meteors. Sun cycles and so forth. At least at this point plenty of evidence shows that we are in a rate of change greater than before. Again does not mean we caused it, and maybe you might look at that evidence skepticaly by those presenting it. Don't really know.

Global climate is one thing. How much energy hits us, and how much is released. That drives the weather. Weather is the redistribution of energy from the equator to the poles. So while you can say areas that were once too cold can now grow food, there will be plenty of areas that are marginally too warm which will be ruined. So I don't think you can say there will be a net increase in agricultural land. weather patterns will shift.

Again, you might view this info skepticaly, but sea level rise estimate are much larger than inches. They range anywhere from 20 ft to 200 fet by centuries end. Let's just go with 20ft. That is still significant. Also, while warmer temps increase water vapor, that is a self regulating loop. So I don't think a significant amout of that will be suspended in the atmoshere.

What I'm really talking about is say New Orleans. Why rebuild if it will be further under sea level. What about New York. Should we maybe start looking at protecting it over N.O. While many just blow off GW, I'm just curious if anyone even takes the warming trend serious. I'm not at all saying the sky is falling. I don't loose any sleep, I just find it interesting. I'm curious where we will be 40 years from now.

We are a consumer based economy. We have gave up our manufacturing base. We are dependent on oil. The war is costly. I wonder what will happen if we are hit with anymore huge weather events. How about the hurricane in New York that everyone fears?

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Powerman

Interesting. There have been many cycles and we actually know what caused most of them, or at least pretty sure. We know there are 100,000 year cycles when the Earth's orbit changes. Of which we are at the peak now. volcanic periods and meteors. Sun cycles and so forth. At least at this point plenty of evidence shows that we are in a rate of change greater than before. Again does not mean we caused it, and maybe you might look at that evidence skepticaly by those presenting it. Don't really know.

Global climate is one thing. How much energy hits us, and how much is released. That drives the weather. Weather is the redistribution of energy from the equator to the poles. So while you can say areas that were once too cold can now grow food, there will be plenty of areas that are marginally too warm which will be ruined. So I don't think you can say there will be a net increase in agricultural land. weather patterns will shift.

Again, you might view this info skepticaly, but sea level rise estimate are much larger than inches. They range anywhere from 20 ft to 200 fet by centuries end. Let's just go with 20ft. That is still significant. Also, while warmer temps increase water vapor, that is a self regulating loop. So I don't think a significant amout of that will be suspended in the atmoshere.

What I'm really talking about is say New Orleans. Why rebuild if it will be further under sea level. What about New York. Should we maybe start looking at protecting it over N.O. While many just blow off GW, I'm just curious if anyone even takes the warming trend serious. I'm not at all saying the sky is falling. I don't loose any sleep, I just find it interesting. I'm curious where we will be 40 years from now.

We are a consumer based economy. We have gave up our manufacturing base. We are dependent on oil. The war is costly. I wonder what will happen if we are hit with anymore huge weather events. How about the hurricane in New York that everyone fears?

A fairly logic set of questions

As for New Orleans,
From a humanitarian standpoint people will say it should be rebuilt. At the same time another group will say people were stupid to build there in the first place. I tend to agree with the second group.

I have no idea how accurate this map is. But it does show a potential that can be easily correlated to a rise in sea level.


So yea, why rebuild if the current projections indicate we are warming up, and the sea level is rising. I don't care to dispute the reasons. I agree it is about time we looked at this without placing blame or making excuses. It is a known fact that there are cycles that occur.