Do Americans Care About Big Brother? (PV)

[XDConvert9mm]

I don't usually agree with the ACLU on many issues. This one I can get behind though, not so much for what is happening or not today but what this type of activity could be setting the stage for down the road.

"He who trades Liberty for Security is likely to get neither". Loose quote.

Do Americans Care About Big Brother?

By MASSIMO CALABRESI/WASHINGTON 1 hour, 40 minutes ago

Pity America's poor civil libertarians. In recent weeks, the papers have been full of stories about the warehousing of information on Americans by the National Security Agency, the interception of financial information by the CIA, the stripping of authority from a civilian intelligence oversight board by the White House, and the compilation of suspicious activity reports from banks by the Treasury Department. On Thursday, Justice Department Inspector General Glenn Fine released a report documenting continuing misuse of Patriot Act powers by the FBI. And to judge from the reaction in the country, nobody cares.

A quick tally of the record of civil liberties erosion in the United States since 9/11 suggests that the majority of Americans are ready to trade diminished privacy, and protection from search and seizure, in exchange for the promise of increased protection of their physical security. Polling consistently supports that conclusion, and Congress has largely behaved accordingly, granting increased leeway to law enforcement and the intelligence community to spy and collect data on Americans. Even when the White House, the FBI or the intelligence agencies have acted outside of laws protecting those rights - such as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act - the public has by and large shrugged and, through their elected representatives, suggested changing the laws to accommodate activities that may be in breach of them.

Civil libertarians are in a state of despair. "People don't realize how damaging it is to a democratic society to allow the government to warehouse information about innocent Americans," says Mike German, national security counsel at the American Civil Liberties Union.

Or do they? In all the examples of diminished civil liberties, there are few, if any, where the motivating factor was something other than law and order or national security. There are no scandalous examples of the White House using the Patriot Act powers for political purposes or of individual agents using them for personal gain. The Justice IG report released Thursday, for example, examined some 50,000 National Security Letters issued in 2006 to see whether the FBI misused that specialized kind of warrantless subpoena. The IG found some continuing abuse of the power, but blamed it for the most part on sloppiness and bad management, not nefarious intent. In a press release accompanying the report, Fine said, "The FBI and Department of Justice have shown a commitment to addressing these problems."

There may, nonetheless, be reasons to feel wary of the civil liberties vs. security trade-off into which Americans have bought. If the misuse documented in the Justice IG report stems from incompetence, Americans may not be getting the security they bargain for in sacrificing their civil liberties. It's also possible the Justice IG may yet find among the abused Patriot Act powers examples of an FBI agent stalking his girlfriend or doing a favor for a political operative friend. Fine is still preparing a report on the illegal use of "exigent letters" in unauthorized demands for records from business.

For now, however, civil libertarians will have to continue to argue that the danger lies not in how the government's expanded powers are being used now, but how they might be used in the future. "The government can collect information about the average citizen without any concern for their rights, but the citizen can't find out what the government is doing, and that's inimical to government of we the people," says the ACLU's German. So far, that argument hasn't convinced the people. View this article on Time.com

Do Americans Care About Big Brother? - Yahoo! News

[JeffXD]

Americans have in large part become to complacent and comfortable to care if the government is watching them and collecting information on them. As long as the lights come on, the toilet flushes, and the lottery ticket machines spit out numbers people are okey dokey. The government keeps the people safe, the government pays for peoples medicine, the government pays for peoples food. Why would anyone want to rock the boat and miss out on the government teat?

I fear we are on a slippery slope that leads to more and more government control and we have no hope of stopping till more people wake up. The United States Government is slowly becoming more and more like the British Crown that we fought to gain independence from in 1776.

[AZXD]

I don't think most of the nation is aware of much beyond the world of Hollywood, and there are many who prefer to watch re-runs on TV-Land and Nick at Nite.

Many have no idea what this symbol represented.


Do Americans care about Big Brother?
Yes!
But only because it is in the same time slot as American Idol.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

I don't usually agree with the ACLU on many issues.

I've personally butted heads with the ACLU, disagreed with them on specific instances from afar, but still believe they serve a crucial service to our freedoms and to the protection of the constitution.

Peace,
D.

[XDTALK]

i've been a member for a year now and i've always just "lurked" but i thought id start posting

i dont care about the government gathering info about me

they can listen to me call my girlfriend, my grandmother, i have nothing to hide.

if it got worse i would certainly be upset but i dont care if the govt is trying to listen to terrorists

[JeffXD]

Originally Posted by XDTALK

i've been a member for a year now and i've always just "lurked" but i thought id start posting

i dont care about the government gathering info about me

they can listen to me call my girlfriend, my grandmother, i have nothing to hide.

if it got worse i would certainly be upset but i dont care if the govt is trying to listen to terrorists

Give the government an inch and they will take a mile.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by JeffXD

Give the government an inch and they will take a mile.

They already have

[JeffXD]

Originally Posted by AZXD

They already have

Yes, and I wish there was a way to start to reel them back in. I know, I know, thats why we vote. It doesn't seem to me that voting is getting the job done anymore. Too many people go to the polls, but they don't vote. They choose the name that is familiar or just vote the incumbent. Our "leaders" get too comfortable in D.C. and pass laws that border on unconstitutional and no one complains. They pass more laws that get closer to being in direct contradiction to the Constitution. No one complains. The next thing you know, the government is telling what you can and can not eat based on your health history. Of course by this time its not legal to carry much less own a gun and government officials are making random searches of homes for any firearms.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by JeffXD

Yes, and I wish there was a way to start to reel them back in. I know, I know, thats why we vote. It doesn't seem to me that voting is getting the job done anymore. Too many people go to the polls, but they don't vote. They choose the name that is familiar or just vote the incumbent. Our "leaders" get too comfortable in D.C. and pass laws that border on unconstitutional and no one complains. They pass more laws that get closer to being in direct contradiction to the Constitution. No one complains. The next thing you know, the government is telling what you can and can not eat based on your health history. Of course by this time its not legal to carry much less own a gun and government officials are making random searches of homes for any firearms.

Voting sure doesn't seem to be working, and I must say you defined the problem very well. I'd tell you of a solution, but big brother is listening They might stop m


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[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by JeffXD

Yes, and I wish there was a way to start to reel them back in. I know, I know, thats why we vote. It doesn't seem to me that voting is getting the job done anymore. Too many people go to the polls, but they don't vote. They choose the name that is familiar or just vote the incumbent. Our "leaders" get too comfortable in D.C. and pass laws that border on unconstitutional and no one complains. They pass more laws that get closer to being in direct contradiction to the Constitution. No one complains. The next thing you know, the government is telling what you can and can not eat based on your health history. Of course by this time its not legal to carry much less own a gun and government officials are making random searches of homes for any firearms.

Yup, that was exactly the point in posting this article. Great synopsis, BTW. If we lay around on the couch while things slowly slip away the toothpaste will eventually be further out of the tube and most won't know how we got there. Just that The Fox Network has been nationalized becuase it was too thought provoking and American Idol has been cancelled in favor of History Channel reruns. Or maybe How Stuff Works? Love that show....

Originally Posted by AZXD

Voting sure doesn't seem to be working, and I must say you defined the problem very well. I'd tell you of a solution, but big brother is listening They might stop m


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"What are you doing....Bob?"

Looks like Morse code (monitored) from this point forward for you!