The lies liberals love, What are we fighting for?

[wombat13]

Originally Posted by Powerman

The only thing that gives terrorists any power is oil. They have fought over the holly land for centuries. Who cares? The only reason we do is for the oil... We are there because terrorists threaten our interests in the region. Our only interests in the region is oil and Israel. Not one claim was made about going there to protect Israel so that isn't it.

Most of your post makes the case that oil is the primary reason that we invaded Iraq. I agree that oil is a central part of why we are involved in the mid-east, but even in your own post you mention terrorism and protecting Israel as other considerations.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by trik396

Well I guess we disagree strongly. And we'll have to leave it at that.

Thats cool. We can agree we both love trick 396s.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Judge

actually he did... and Iraq was not that closely monitored...

SH buried MIG-25 Foxbats, we didn't know about or know where - till local intel was provided us.

Right. Pre-GWI. He also sent planes across the border pre GWI invasion. So what.

[FrankRizzoXD40]

Not that this is actually proof of anything, but one of my very good friends who did two tours in Iraq told me an interesting story.

He was part of the invading force and he said that shortly after the invasion he was visiting with some Iraqi villagers. The villagers told me that a few days before the invasion, Iraqi helicopters kept dropping all kinds of crates and barrels into a really deep lake near the village. They told him that they were doing it for a couple days straight.

Originally Posted by Powerman

If you believe that Saddam dug a hole and buried a large stockpile of weapons without us knowing, then you believe our intelligence assets are completely blind.

I do think they can be completely blind in some cases. Our intelligence services have screwed up all kinds of things. Remember 9/11? They couldn't even talk to each other effectively because of the bureacracy.

Frank

[FrankRizzoXD40]

Originally Posted by Powerman

Right. Pre-GWI. He also sent planes across the border pre GWI invasion. So what.

Well, it means that he can hide stuff without us knowing about it.

I'm not saying he did, I'm just saying it's possible.

Frank

[Judge]

No, this was GWII...

If he can bury several 35 ton aircraft, each nearly 25 m long, burying a few hundred barrels of WMD in a country the size of the SE US is childsplay.

Originally Posted by Powerman

Right. Pre-GWI. He also sent planes across the border pre GWI invasion. So what.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by wombat13

Most of your post makes the case that oil is the primary reason that we invaded Iraq. I agree that oil is a central part of why we are involved in the mid-east, but even in your own post you mention terrorism and protecting Israel as other considerations.

That's cool. Yes there are other consideration, they are just not the primary. Pre 9/11 we had no desire to remove Saddam. We had no idea what to do with Iraq post Saddam.

Here is my central problem. Pre 9/11, there is no way the American public would have agreed to invading Iraq to remove Saddam. Post 9/11 the case was made that the situation has changed. That Saddam was actively perusing WMDs and had a program in place. That he had active ties to AQ, although no ties to 9/11, and that he was actively sponsoring and promoting Global terrorism against the U.S. And that he was going to put these WMDs in the hands of terrorist that would use them against the U.S. The evidence to this date after exhaustive investigation has turned up nothing to support such assertions. The point being is that Saddam post 9/11 was no more of a threat to the U.S. than he was pre 9/11.

My problem is that there is a real threat to the U.S. from terrorist organization. Iraq has distracted us and diverted resources from that real threat. If securing the U.S. from terrorism is the primary reason, then there are other way to better accomplish that than Iraq. What securing Iraq does for us is secure oil.

My problem with all that is cast doubt on the ability of our leadership to effectively manage this threat. It cast doubt as to the true reasons for what we are doing. It casts doubt on our intelligence we base wars on especially since the same was said about Iran's nuclear program only to be found out to be inactive for 3 years. We are also building a case to invade Iran. That is my problem.

[FrankRizzoXD40]

Originally Posted by Powerman

The point being is that Saddam post 9/11 was no more of a threat to the U.S. than he was pre 9/11.

The Bush answer would be that after 9/11 we can't afford to tolerate any threats, big or small.

Originally Posted by Powerman

My problem is that there is a real threat to the U.S. from terrorist organization. Iraq has distracted us and diverted resources from that real threat.

How has Iraq diverted any resources? We have a large military prescense in Afghanistan and on the border regions. Afghanistan's security situation simply requires less manpower.

The main reason we are having problems sqashing aq in the mountain regions is because we don't have enough balls to say "FU pakistan" and invade the tribal regions (with special ops) despite their objections. Most seem to agree that is where bin laden is hiding. If we think we know where he is, we should either send someone in or blow the place up.

Sorry for the drifting there...

We are also building a case to invade Iran. That is my problem.

What makes you think we are building a case to invade Iran? If anything, Iran is building a case for itself to be attacked by other countries.

Frank

[AZXD]

As most everyone here knows my position on this subject, I'll just say .....
That I don't care what anyone thinks of me.
I stopped caring about those who would label me a America Hating individual.
I stopped caring about those who would imply that I am a traitor and equated me to Benedict Arnold and Robert Hanssen just because I was born in America and happened to be proud enough to say so.
If you don't like that I don't care, to bad!

As for this entire thread and those who want to call other people names and imply that they are somehow better than others because you can walk the moral highground that no one else can reach ...... You are a joke to humanity, if you fit the category.

For everyone else, I'll just repeat my last post on this subject.

Originally Posted by AZXD

What surge
We're at war ?

Naw I'm callin BS. There ain't no war or my government would be asking me to buy WAR BONDS

That in and of itself is the biggest problem, IMO. This country is way to isolated and sheltered from everything that is occurring in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Our civilian leadership sucks.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Judge

No, this was GWII...

If he can bury several 35 ton aircraft, each nearly 25 m long, burying a few hundred barrels of WMD in a country the size of the SE US is childsplay.

Forgive me of viewing information from you skeptically.

One thing that is good is that if Saddam buried them, or threw them in a lake that is good. We went to war for those WMDs and they have been taken out of circulation. Bush will take a hit, but the world is better off. Yeah.

If they are in Syria as everyone seems to know, then we need to invade Syria for the same reasons we invaded Iraq.