Terrorists endorse Pelosi's 'good policy of dialogue' and praise the democrats!

[FrankRizzoXD40]

Originally Posted by Powerman

Excuse me. This is the Democrats/Leftist/Liberals suck forum. If you don't have anything positive to add, please remain silent. We don't like getting off topic here.

Why would you think that? Did the mods post an annoucement that I missed?

Or perhaps left-leaning individuals are embarrassed/upset that the terrorists are vocally delcaring support for their party?

I don't think anyone is going to flame jeff. He is a reasonable guy who always seems to provide a good and respected perspective.

His views are more than welcome in any of my threads.

Frank

[jdavionic]

Originally Posted by jeff221

Ok, I have a question for discussion sake...

Facts:
Terrorists are bad
Terrorists Kill People
We Don't Like Terrorists OR people getting killed

Discussions:
Terrorists like Democrats
Terrorists praise decisions

End results:
Terrorists stop doing "bad" things
Terrorists stop killing people
We get to not have to deal with worring abotu being blown up




I don't personally, see a problem with the theory above. If we can "discuss" things with the "terrorists" and find a suitable solution which makes them no longer "terrorists" maybe next time they have an issue they won't blow up buildings, they'll be willing to talk again?

Just a theory to discuss... Flame on!

No flaming; but I will address your points. The points that you raised are similar to some points that a deacon attempted to make in our church on the anniversary of 9/11. He was aggressively rebuffed on his arguments, especially from some local military families.

First, the theory is based on the idea that if we are somehow nice or to use the current popular term appeasing to these terrorists that they will leave us alone. History has shown that this assumption is wrong. For example, OBL was plotting a strike against innocent civilians in this country under a democrat president. Or how about the beheading of Danny Pearl? Certainly he did nothing to deserve it. The list that I could put together would be quite lengthy.

The issue that seems lost on some folks is that these people genuinely hate us, our way of life, our non-islamic religions (even though they themselves are far from islamic teachings), and virtually everything about us. They believe it's perfectly fine to lie to & manipulate us to achieve their goals...a world dominated by radical islamic extremists like the Taliban. The only thing that you and I could do to please them is to die or convert. And I seriously doubt whether the latter would spare us our lives.

So Pelosi and yes, those republicans that preceded her are fools...IMO. They fail to appreciate the situation that the world is in today. While I think they are intentionally undermining the president and his administration to achieve their political aspirations, I also think that they are horribly naive. God help us if these appeasers (both democrat and republican) ever take the White House.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Powerman

Excuse me. This is the Democrats/Leftist/Liberals suck forum. If you don't have anything positive to add, please remain silent. We don't like getting off topic here.

I saw the and understand you.
LMOA

[FrankRizzoXD40]

We all know how that worked out.

I am sure that he had the support of his enemies, including Hitler and Mussolini.

"If we just talk to them and seek peace, we will be spared."

*edit* for anyone who doesn't know, this is a picture of Neville Chamberlain (British PM) waving a peace treaty signed by Hitler (The Munich Agreement). Hitler violated the agreement and attacked England anyways. *edit*

Frank

[jeff221]

Originally Posted by FrankRizzoXD40

No need for flames....you're a respectable guy.

What makes you so sure that the democrats traveling to visit our enemies, making false promises on behalf of other nations, having discussions with state sponsors of terror, earning praise and support from terrorists is going to stop terrorists from doing bad (why'd you put "bad" in quotations??) things and stop them from killing people?

The terrorists have already said that they won't stop until they kill us. The fact that they are now voicing vocal support for the democrats to win elections should be a complete embarassment to the democrat party.

I hope that the words of encouragement from "Jihad Jaara" and members of Islamic Jihad didn't give you some kind of false hope that they were actually ready for a "reasonable truce". These kinds of people have been killing innocents and blowing themselves up for years.

If we are going to start a dialogue, it needs to be with moderate muslims and nations. State sponsors of terror should be isolated. I do agree that we should actively start a dialoge with some of these nations. Your point, in that regard, is valid.

Frank

Killing is barbaric, sometimes nessecery, but most the time a caveman like action which does nothing but create more violance. For every "terrorist" we kill we create 3 more out of his family. if you do the math, it adds us against us real quick. Terrorism is a crime, and should be punished as such. I believe the people in SingSing would have a much better time with these "terrorists" then our armed forces do. Nevertheless, I'm off track...

People turn to terrorism when they have no other method of defending themselves. They feel attacked. The west has been "playing" with the middle east behind the scene's for quite some time. History has shown our involvment in trying to overthrow governments, removal of dictators we don't like. Funding of groups who's ideals are the same as ours. All the main "terrorists" want in Iraq is us to get out. Al Quada is another story all together, but we're not hunting for Bin Laden, we're playing "whack-a-mole" in an Iraqi civil war.

I assume these facts to be true, some may debate them, I know they are true:
1) You'll never ever kill all the "Terrorists" in the world, someone will hate you for some reason all the time.
2) Terrorism is a world-wide CRIME which should be punsihed as such
3) War does nothing but create more enemies & Terrorists

[deepdiver]

IMO the problem with negotiations is this: The islamofascists don't want to live peacefully with us on this planet. They want you to agree with them and be muslim under sharia law or they want you dead. Not wounded, not inconvenienced, not isolated, but dead. They not only want you dead, they want you, your wife, your children, your parents and everyone you love dead. And the worst part is that they will strap a bomb onto their 12 year old daughter or son and send them to kill you. They HATE you more than they LOVE their own children. How the hell do you negotiate with that?

Negotiator: Ok, we'll give you $10B in aid, we'll pull all of our troops out of the Middle East and we will pay you a 10% premium for your oil. We'll also share technology with you to allow you fully modernize your country. That's what we are willing to do. What do you want?

Terrorist: We want you to die.

Negotiator: Well how about we throw in agricultural support and subsidized food supplies. What about that?

Terrorist: We want you to die.

Negotiator: Well, we'll give you most favored nation status for trade. Does that work for you?

Terrorist: We want you to die.

Yeah, negotiations are going to work real well .... I'm not saying all muslim or Middle East nations are like that. I'm talking about terroists and terrorist states that support them. We need to isolate and elminate the threat. Does nobody remember the appeasement of Hitler, Moussilini and Hirohito prior to WWII. We can't economically isolate them as that is counterproductive (Treaty of Versailles after WWI that was the catalyst allowing Hitler to come into power), however, we also cannot allow terrorist, radical leadership in those countries to prevail. We have to make it clear that we don't have a beef with the citizens of the terrorist nations (except the terrorist elements) it is the islamofascist leadership and gov'ts that are the issue. Unfortunately, as with any war in history, the innocent citizens always suffer for teh follies of the gov't.

[FrankRizzoXD40]

Originally Posted by jeff221

1) You'll never ever kill all the "Terrorists" in the world, someone will hate you for some reason all the time.

That is true. I don't want to kill all the terrorists in the world. If we keep them on the run, use diplomacy with the moderates as much as possible, strike them wherever they hide we can be effective at stopping them. We must make it clear to them that if they launch attacks against the US, they will be hunted down--create a detterent.

Originally Posted by jeff221

2) Terrorism is a world-wide CRIME which should be punsihed as such

Agreed again.

Originally Posted by jeff221

3) War does nothing but create more enemies & Terrorists

I disagree. After WWII, Japan, Germany and Italy our now either our allies or are friendly to the US. If we would have chosen not to fight in that war, there is a good chance we would have been conquered.

Frank

[Powerman]

I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. First off, Bush sucks. No serious. For those that are not happy with his actions the list is long. Obviously not everyone agrees. This thing has drawn on and Bush refuses to change course. After the elections he still refuses. So what options are left? Just sit back and do nothing? Bush is bullying the world, now he seems to be bullying the American public by threatening to veto legislation, and increasing troops, and so forth. So it is getting frustrating that no compromises are being sought, or actions being amended, or behaviors being changed.

On the other hand, I am really not happy with the message being sent. It seems the Dems can't see past their nose. They too seem to not get it. They should be working to come to a compromise with Bush. The problem is with our leadership and the differing opinions about what to do with the terroists. It isn't that the terrorists want to be our friends. I am upset the the Dems are not making it perfectly clear that the U.S. will not tolerate terrorists, period.

There are many ways to bring peace to the Middle East. Ways that the arogance of the President have allowed to passby IMO. However, by undermining our unity as a nation and pandering to terrorist, I believe it is the wrong direction to take. There could still be a negotiated peace, but playing "soft" ball right off the bat just doesn't sit well with me.

AZXD

[jeff221]

Originally Posted by FrankRizzoXD40

I disagree. After WWII, Japan, Germany and Italy our now either our allies or are friendly to the US. If we would have chosen not to fight in that war, there is a good chance we would have been conquered.

I stand corrected, although I doubt the end result would have been being "conquered"

[beardman2]

This doesn't seem too shocking to me. The people in the middle east are not ignorant of politics. they are supporting the enemy (figuratively) of their enemy (Bush).