Gas at $4 a gallon?

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by jeepinbanditrider

Not a whole lot of those other countries have families spread across the country. We don't have the type of mass transit system that they do and much of our population is de-centralized.

I agree. Our Country is much different geographicaly. I was listening to some show and there was a British guy that wanted to go see some relatives. It cost him a tank of gas. That tank cost $300 U.S. So that is the same as buying a plane ticket. He doesn't see his relatives that often.

For me, I don't give it a second thought to go burn a $50 tank of gas to go wheeling, or snowboarding up in the mountains on a day trip.

[Cryogaijin]

Having said that, the American consumer is the real problem. Our glutonous consumption and lack of any concern for anything besides cheap gas. We cry at the outrage of $3-$4 a gallon when the rest of the world spends twice that. We are quite spoiled when it comes to our standard of living and what we expect compared to other countries.

That is about what I think.

I've been driving cars that get ~30-40mpg for a decade now, and swings in gas prices simply don't bother me. Also helps that I only have to fuel up once a month. . .

The american consumer is fixated on power, size, and prestige. As a bachelor, I have no real need for a big car/truck. I also live somewhere that every major store delivers, and I tend to be in the free delivery zone. In the summer I can bike to work easy enough.

When katrina hit, I posted a "haha!" thread over on the Arstechnica soapbox. After listening to a week of people whining, I'd had enough. IME 90% of people that whine about gas prices got vehicles that were "cool" or "prestigious" rather than what was efficient. And instead of buying outright they finance. So not only do they get hit in the wallet by gas prices, they get hit on the interest for financing. Idiots.

In my "HAHA!" thread I was attacked based on "But what about the poor people that live ** miles from work?" and "But what about the people that can't afford a new car and have to get something cheap and used?" and "what about people still making payments!?"

1. Commute. If you are a heavy commuter and you don't stop to consider the COST of the commute, curl up and die. You made your choice where to live. You made your choice of vehicle. You need to take responsibility for your lifestyle. IT IS NOT THE US GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO ALLOW YOU TO LIVE AN UNSUSTAINABLE LIFESTYLE! Noone is forcing you to live 50 miles from work, or to make an absurd commute. Perhaps you should have thought more about the situation you were getting into before committing?

2. Used cars. Go to a fleabag used car lot. Find a Civic, Corolla, Saturn, Golf/rabbit or Sentra 4banger built in the last 15 years. Odds are good it will get over 30 in the city. And they'll be cheaper than the majority of the crap on the lot. Your point?

3. Financing SUVs. Do some freaking research on this. Most SUVs are mediocre peformers, and have a high factory markup. And get ****ty gas mileage. For the same price as a ****ty gas guzzling SUV you can get a high performance Audi/VW or Suburu AWD car that gets double the milage (or a Toyota Matrix, or similar) has virtually all the utility, and comes with all the bells and whistles. In truth the efficient AWD car bodied vehicle will usually be less expensive. Now if you really want to confuse the market, take a look at the new generation of small, efficient, sporty hatchbacks, like the Honda Fit Sport, the Nissan Versa, Mazda 3, etc. Fold the rear seat down and you have FAR more cargo space than most people expect, and they all get 30 in the city, appx 40 on the highway. (I drive a Nissan Versa, btw.) Best part about the small hatchbacks? They start at $13k which is much more palatable than a 36k guzzling behemoth.

So, in short, I say $4 a gallon? bring it on.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Cryogaijin

So, in short, I say $4 a gallon? bring it on.

Good points.

[AZXD]

While I agree with most of what has been written thus far, consider the following article.

Why Oil Prices haven't Crippled the US Economy Yet

This shows the basis of why many can say let it hit 4-5 dollars a gallon. Basically when one adjusts for inflation, we pay less now than we have in the past.

Oil Price History and Analysis

But the true concern over prices is a statement of the global economics of a system of supply and demand.

I just heard that Mexico currently receives 40% of the governments income from oil. Yet this field is on the decline like all others around the world. Most fields are reporting 10-15% declines in available crude per year. This rapid decline is due to advances in technology that allow extraction to occur more rapidly and completely.

Think about it!
Who cares about the middle east?
We are currently about 10 years away from our neighbor to the east facing importation of oil to survive. This is the same situation the U.S. faced in the early 70's. Prior to this date, we exported oil. Then almost overnight we started importing oil to maintain our infrastructure.

While there is justifiable concern over Iran's nuclear endeavors, they claim they are developing this technology because their oil supply is drying up. Are we, as a nation, going to stupidly allow the fear mongers of U.S. nuclear power to cause our own economy to fail as our current energy suppliers raise their asking price? Are we going to ignore the capabilities of this nation until we have diminished our resources to the point we are unable to help ourselves? Are we .............?

I am not saying we need to hug trees, but as a nation we need to reassess our energy requirements and invest wisely. We are, as President Bush stated "addicted to oil".

The solution is simple, we need to make lifestyle changes and invest in our countries capabilities to curb the obvious, before it is to late. Electric energy IMHO would be a great place to start. The rebuilding of our train systems to handle MagLev capable high speed transit/cargo that is coupled with electric truck transport would definately help. But the best starting point would be energy independant neighborhood's where every roof has PV cells installed and tied to the electrical grid. Some geographic locations would not supply much energy, but you have to admit something is better than nothing.

Then of course there is this http://www.iter.org/index.htm

[wombat13]

Please read this George will article if you believe that Big Oil "controls" gas prices or is out to gouge the consumer. The link is below, but here is the important paragraph:

"Oil companies make about 13 cents on a gallon of gas. Government makes much more. The federal tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. Mrs. Clinton's New York collects 42.4 cents a gallon. Forty-nine states -- all but Alaska -- make more than the oil companies do on every gallon."

Or how about this info for those of you that think Big Oil is too profitable:

"In the 20 years from 1987 to 2006, Exxon Mobil invested more ($279 billion) than it earned ($266 billion). Five weeks after the company announced its 2006 earnings, it said it will invest $60 billion in oil and gas projects over the next three years. It will, unless a President Clinton and a Democratic-controlled Congress ``take'' Big Oil's profits, which are much smaller than Big Government's revenue from gasoline consumption."

Here's the link: http://townhall.com/columnists/Georg...ing_gas_prices

[wombat13]

Originally Posted by Cryogaijin

So, in short, I say $4 a gallon? bring it on.

Schadenfreude is poor form. It's polite to keep it to yourself.

FWIW, I'm not one that whines about gas prices. If gas becomes expensive enough I will change my behavior. $3 to $4 per gallon isn't even close to how expensive it would have to get for me to significantly alter my lifestyle.

[deepdiver]

Originally Posted by wombat13

Please read this George will article if you believe that Big Oil "controls" gas prices or is out to gouge the consumer....

Laff .. I was getting ready to post that link as I also read that column this morning. Good reading.

I'll believe anyone in gov't and the American people really give a s*** about energy when we start drilling in ANWR, sink some new off shore rigs in the the Gulf and let the oil companies build AT LEAST 2 new refineries as they have been begging to do for years (they always encounter the NIMBY syndrome and the tree hugger rants). If enough people told their congressmen to do these things it would happen. We don't have to use Middle East oil. We have plenty of it however the enviroweinies and knee-jerk bedwetters have successfully convinced Congressmen to restrict the drilling and refining of oil on American soil. It is stupid, stupid, stupid (but then so are most people so it at least tracks well intellectually).l

Oh, and as to the increase in gas prices, it is pretty insignificant in my world. I have set up my life such that in a typical day I drive 2-3 miles total. My office is .5 miles from my house and in between my house and office is one of my favorite restaurants, my grocery store, my car wash, my gas station (which now has US post office window in it so I don't have to drive down town for that anymore). My banks, gym and drycleaner are <1 mile from my house in the other direction. I drive a "gas guzzling" sports car that admittedly, in town on short trips only gets 15-18 mpg, however, on longer trips and when traveling for business it gets 27-29 mpg (also I tend to keep my foot into the throttle pretty far in town). The biggest mileage issue I have is going to the firing range which is about 20 miles from my house. If I was going to save gas money that would be the thing that gets cut out ... how likely does anybody think that is ....

[AZXD]

wombat13,
Thanks for the link. It reinforces the one I posted about how we as a nation are not really concerned due to inflationary factors.

As for the Clinton idea, she is totally wrong to even suggest that government should mitigate in the profit potential of a company. To do so would remove the reason for the company to exist.

[deepdiver]

It is socialism at it's finest. There is nothing of yours that a liberal isn't willing to take away in the name of "fairness" or "environmental wellness" or some like collectivistic slogan.

[TeamFowler]

I live just outside the city limits and take the bus to work. For <$4 a day I let someone else do the driving and read the paper or listen to my iPod. The bus is a fun place to try and spot people I might need to take down.

Also, I work from home / telecommute 2 days a week. If this is an option for you, it saves a lot of gas. A lot of employers are offering this b/c they don't want to pay high utility costs.