Bush is a ____!

[Powerman]

You are not a smart mouth. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Lord knows I have plenty of them

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by bigpov

I am also a conservative republican. I voted for Bush both times, and also pushed others to get out and vote for him as well. Bush isn't doing the best job, but it could be a lot worse, just think if Kerry, or Hillary make it into office this next time. What a mess that'd be. We complain about political correctness now, can you even imagine how much as$ kissing and back pedaling our government would be doing then. I have read in a few of the posts how our military's hands are tied, and I totally agree. How can you win a war when the thing you are most worried about is being politically correct, and not pissing anyone else off? Why fight a war that no one can win? We need to be able to go and do whatever is necessary, to a point, to win this war. If you fight a war that only focuses on civilian casualties and how we look to the French,UN CNBC, or CNN, we can never really win. I'm not saying we should go in and bomb the crap out of civilian buildings or just blindly lob mortars like they do, but the military needs to be able to do what needs to be done to finish what we started. I'm not very well spoken, so I hope that this makes sense. I love my country and I stand behind my President, but I just wish he'd have the backbone to make the right calls when it comes to this war. He started out great, but he started to fizzle out when he started worrying what others thought. It all comes down to at least it's not Kerry running the show. If he were we'd be here on our soil, not fighting back and apologizing for being such oil hungry, tree hating, ozone depleting infidels. Didn't you guys realize, just like Powerman implys, it's our fault they hate us. So hopefully Kerry or Hillary will make it into office next and we'll get what's coming to us. At least that's what I feel they're thinking.

Welcome to the board!!!!!

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by bigpov

I am also a conservative republican. I voted for Bush both times, and also pushed others to get out and vote for him as well. Bush isn't doing the best job, but it could be a lot worse, just think if Kerry, or Hillary make it into office this next time. What a mess that'd be. We complain about political correctness now, can you even imagine how much as$ kissing and back pedaling our government would be doing then. I have read in a few of the posts how our military's hands are tied, and I totally agree. How can you win a war when the thing you are most worried about is being politically correct, and not pissing anyone else off? Why fight a war that no one can win? We need to be able to go and do whatever is necessary, to a point, to win this war. If you fight a war that only focuses on civilian casualties and how we look to the French,UN CNBC, or CNN, we can never really win. I'm not saying we should go in and bomb the crap out of civilian buildings or just blindly lob mortars like they do, but the military needs to be able to do what needs to be done to finish what we started. I'm not very well spoken, so I hope that this makes sense. I love my country and I stand behind my President, but I just wish he'd have the backbone to make the right calls when it comes to this war. He started out great, but he started to fizzle out when he started worrying what others thought. It all comes down to at least it's not Kerry running the show. If he were we'd be here on our soil, not fighting back and apologizing for being such oil hungry, tree hating, ozone depleting infidels. Didn't you guys realize, just like Powerman implys, it's our fault they hate us. So hopefully Kerry or Hillary will make it into office next and we'll get what's coming to us. At least that's what I feel they're thinking.

Welcome to the board!!!!!

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by bigpov

Thanks for the welcome guys. Sorry about being a smart mouth in my first post. It just drives me freakin crazy when some people, which happen to be mostly liberal democrats, feel that because someone hates us we must have wronged them in some way. Another problem that I have is that they also believe that if we stick out heads in the sand and ignore what is going on around us that they'll just leave us alone. We weren't invading their space when 9-11 happened and they still hit us where it hurt. At least we were taking the initiative to keep it from happening on our soil again. Like the original post in this thread said, this war should have been over 2 years ago. We are the laughing stock of the world right now. Our policies have rendered the most powerful army in the world as impotent as an 80 yr old man after 60 years of marriage. LOL We can all sit around and criticize Bush, but when it comes down to it, he's just doing what he sees the "majority" of Americans wanting him to do. That is if you pay any attention to any of the polls (which I think are a joke, by the way). People want the best of both worlds. They want peace in the world, but they don't want anyone to get hurt in the process. I wish that that could be the case, but in the real world, it's not. Bush is trying to cater to the right and the left and that's where the problem lies. He needs to do what his gut, and his military leaders tell him needs to be done rather than his political strategists. That's my .02 for what it's worth. Thanks again guys. This gets the blood flowin doesn't it?

Oh, even better!!!!!
Yea, I'm looking forward to reading more from you. I like it.

For the record, I have been registered as a Democrat since I turned 18 and followed my fathers footsteps. But I do not vote based on my party. I firmly believe in doing what I feel is best for my country. Thus, I also voted for Bush, and after serving 5yrs active and 2 more on active reserve, it really pi$$'s me off when people trash talk the President while having no clue what they are talking about. You can disagree with his policy all you want, but the position deserves respect, and most of the population do not know him at a personal level, and because of this should call him who he is to us. The President of the United States.

Oh yea, I've learned over the years to hate only myself.
[edit] Fingers forgot how to spell check.

[NewXD40fun]

Originally Posted by FrankRizzoXD40

Debunking The War For Oil Theory
by John Hawkins

As I read the latest & greatest piece of diarrhea to be penned by one of the 'war for oil" crowd, I was struck by how shallow and ill-thought out this theory it is.

In fact, when I called it the "war for oil theory" in the title of this editorial, I probably gave the whole idea more credit that it's due. That's because there's really nothing more to the whole "theory" than,

A) The United States uses oil
B) Iraq has a lot of oil
C) Bush & Cheney are former oilmen

We're actually lucky that Cheney never owned a Major League baseball team and that Iraq doesn't have any talented, young players or we'd probably be treated to the "war for baseball" theory by the anti-war left.

But "war for baseball" makes about as much sense as "war for oil" when you think about it. Just ponder the OBVIOUS question that the proponents of the 'war for oil' theory never ask. That question is, "What are we accomplishing with a war for oil that we couldn't achieve more easily via peaceful means?"

-- We can't be going to war to get Saddam to sell us oil because he already does.

-- Do we want him to sell us MORE oil? Well then all we'd have to do is ask. Iraq is desperate to acquire more revenue.

-- Do we want to increase the price of oil to make the oil companies more profitable? Again, that's easy to do. We could simply destroy the Iraqi oil fields in retaliation for their attacks on our planes in the "no fly" zone. That would cause a large temporary spike in the price of oil.

-- Do we want to get more oil on the world market so we can buy cheaper oil? We could easily convince the UN to remove the sanctions and Iraq would quickly double their oil production. They're currently producing way under capacity.

-- Do we want to get the oil field contracts that the French and Russians have? Behind the scenes, Bush could have offered to have the sanctions lifted if Hussein would have torn up the contracts he had with the French and Russians. If we didn't want the sanctions in place they'd be gone and the contracts Saddam made with the French and the Russians? They don't mean anything when you're dealing with a dictator like Hussein -- unless you've got a military capable of enforcing the deal. Also, just as a side note, the war, the occupation, and aid we'll give Iraq will end up costing us much more than those oil fields are worth even if we would have gotten them all (which we won't).

-- Do we want to control the country that has the 2nd largest supply of oil in the world so we'll still have a source of oil after much of the rest of the planet has gone dry? Well, this makes no sense at all in world where relationships between nations change regularly. Think about how our relationships with Pakistan, Russia, South Korea, & Germany have changed just since 9/11. The only way we could insure that we would still have access to Iraq's oil decades from now would be to make them into a US colony with a puppet ruler who actually takes orders from us. Is there anyone out there who actually thinks this is going to happen despite the fact that we're not doing it anywhere else in the world today?

The reason I've had to toss out all these different options in the first place is because there is no consistent, rational theory coming from the 'war for oil' people. They themselves don't even understand what they mean by "war for oil".

If you want to expose how little thought these people have put into this, just use the Socratic Method on them. I'm sure your conversation will sound something like this?

Anti-War Protestor: This is a war for oil! That's what this all about!

You: Why do you say that?

Anti-War Protestor: Because Iraq has oil and we want it! Bush and Cheney, they're oilmen!

You: So how does invading Iraq help us get their oil?

Anti-War Protestor: After we invade, we can just take it!

You: So you're saying we're going to invade Iraq and just take over their oil fields? Then we're never going to pay Iraq for their oil? That doesn't sound very likely?.

Anti-War Protestor: I'm not saying that?we will pay for the oil but?

You: But, we already pay for the oil. How is that different from what we're doing now?

Anti-War Protestor: We'll have all that oil under our control!

You: How will it be under our control?

Anti-War Protestor: Iraq's leader will be a puppet of the United States! They'll have to sell us oil!

You: But they already sell us oil. So why should we?

Anti-War Protestor: He tried to kill Bush's daddy! That's what this really about!

The 'war for oil theory' isn't a serious theory for people who pay attention to foreign policy. It's really nothing more than a bumper sticker slogan that through parrot-like repetition has managed to impress liberal partisans, people who don't like Bush, and those who don't really understand foreign policy.

© Copyright 2001-2006 John Hawkins
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously this is from a biased source, but he presents some very intresting points.

If this war is really all about oil, then we are going about it completely the wrong way.

And I SWEAR TO GOD I've had that conversation at the end of that piece with SEVERAL people over the last few years..... (not in this forum yet, however).

Frank

Wow Frank, you destroyed one of the Bush-hater's ideological foundations.


Tom

[Powerman]

Braack, Polly want a cracker. Braack.

[1Timer]

Originally Posted by nsnate02

I understand the sentiment, but i hope everyone realizes tha 80% of Iraq is peaceful. In fact they had a carnival in downtown Baghdad this past week with a Farris Wheel and all!
The fighting is limited to very small areas (relative to the entirety of Iraq). In fact, Baghdad is roughly the size of LA and guess who has had more murders over the same time period?

Thanks for this information. I just found the perfect spot for my next vacation! When is LA going to stop all the killing, lighten up, and get a Ferris Wheel downtown like Baghdad...the Disney World of the Middle East!