Please Read!!

[dualcert]

I see that a lot of our members are VERY vocal and opinionated about this countries state of affairs, and voice their disapproval of how the federal government is slowly squeezing the people and molding the constitution to fit their whims.

I also see that a lot of our members have a questions that they pose to LEOs on the board, asking for advice and help with things they don't fully understand. I am asking you guys (and gals) to do some research on this man
Edwards County Texas, Deputy Sheriff Guillermo F. Hernandez

D/S Hernandez is due to be sentenced NEXT MONTH in a shooting that occurred in 2006 involving illegal aliens and their attempt to run over D/S Hernandez to escape.
A brief synopsis:
D/S Hernandez was on duty one night and saw a Chevrolet Suburban blow a stop sign. D/S Hernandez affected a traffic stop on the vehicle. Upon approach of the drivers window, D/S Hernandez attempted to make contact, at this time the driver cut the vehicles wheels hard left and gunned the vehicle and came within a few inches of striking the Deputy. D/S Hernandez drew his weapon and shot the vehicles left rear tire out, attempted to shoot out the right rear tire, one round passed through the lower rear cargo area of the vehicle and struck a Mexican female illegal alien, grazing her lips and taking out 5 of her teeth. She was stuffed in the back of the vehicle in the wheel well area. The vehicle contained 9 people of whom, at least 7 were illegal. The U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
has taken up this case and intends to send this Deputy to prison for being "found guilty of violating "under the color of law" the civil rights of Maricela Rodriguez-Garcia, a Mexican national."

You can find all the information you want by following this link
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...lmer+Hernandez

I should be ashamed, I didn't learn anything about this guy who was doing his job (his boss, the Sheriff of Edwards county backs his Deputy 100%!!) until I saw John Walsh of AMW run a feature story on him.
I too am a Deputy Sheriff (not in Texas) I and my fellow Deputies in my state are faced by a large number of illegals, growing daily. I don't want anymore of my brothers and sisters to have to face what this poor guy and his family are facing!!!

PLEASE GET INVOLVED!!! LET YOUR STATE ELECTED OFFICIALS KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!!!!
THIS DEPUTY NEEDS HELP!!!!

Sorry rant off, but I can see this hogtying our efforts to do our jobs and protect what we took an oath to uphold.

[dualcert]

Of course the illegal aliens that were questioned LIED about parts of the incident!! The following was taken from the Rock Springs Texas Ledger, the local newspaper.

In statements from Maricela Rodriguez-Garcia, Ivonne Hernandez Morales and Candido Garcia Perez, all occupants in the vehicle, they had secured a guided crossing across the Rio Grande from Acuna, Mexico for $2,000.00. They were then taken to a hotel where they stayed for several days, then transported to a rural area where they were met by a guide who would walk them around the Border Patrol check point north of Del Rio. After walking several hours, they then met a driver with the Suburban who was to take them to their destination. Four planned to go to Austin, two others to the Dallas area. With these six were the driver and guide when it continued on toward Rocksprings. In Candido Perez’ statement, he reported five shots as the driver took off from the first stop, and then he said three more shots were fired whitle they were running. Morales stated that she heard eight shots at the first stop and two more while they were running after departing the vehicle. Maricela Garcia states that she hear the sound of gunshots at the first stop, but she does not mention any after that. Morales and Perez stated that after all had left they located each other and hitchhiked to Georgetown.

Because of the statements of the individuals Ranger Smith enlisted the aid of ATF Agent Kyle Butler and ATF K-9 Simon met in Rocksprings on April 20, 2005. The Ranger, ATF Butler and the K-9 conducted a search of the initial stop location as pointed out by Deputy Hernandez. The K-9 located a fourth casing from the Deputy Hernandez’s weapon the K-9 also located a spot on the pavement where a round had hit the pavement which would have been close to the location of the left rear tire of the fleeing suburban. The K-9 located part of bullet on the north east side of US 377 near the park building. The Officers and the K-9 went to the second location. This is the area where two of the illegal aliens stated that the Deputy fired shots at them while they were fleeing the suburban. One said two shots and one said three shots at the second location. At the second location ATF-K-9 Simon did not alert on any locations in this area, did not find any bullets bullet fragments, or any shell casings. ATF Agent Butler then scanned and searched the area with a metal detector and did not locate any bullets, fragments or shell casings. Sheriff Letsinger talked with Ranger Bobby Smith about the search of the areas and Smiths investigation. Smith stated that he found evidence at the first location that confirmed what Deputy Hernandez had stated. The only exception was that there was at least four shot fired by the Deputy not three. However Smith stated that it was not unusual for Officers to mis count the number of shots they fire in such situations. Sheriff Letsinger ask Ranger Smith if Smith or the ATF Agent or the K-9 found any evidence confirming the statements of the individuals that the deputy had shot at them while they were fleeing the suburban. Ranger Smith stated to Sheriff Letsinger that there was not any evidence that the Deputy shot at the individuals fleeing the suburban and the search was through.

[rodnocker1]

They had "secured a guided crossing" and they were "met by a guide who would walk them around the Border Patrol checkpoint"? Wow, even the illegals have started using PC speak. Next, instead of someone coming over the border with 100 pounds of cocaine hidden in his vehicle being a drug smuggler, he will be "an amateur pharmacologist seeking to get his product out into the free market without the added expense of costly overhead such as a manufacturer's license, place of business, import taxes, etc". They were violating United States laws, plain and simple.

On top of that, the piece of garbage U.S. Attorney is trying to railroad him to prison with "being found guilty of violating, under the color of law, the civil rights of a Mexican National". I'm not too bright (as most on this board already know) but what "civil rights" are afforded under the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights to an illegal immigrant who is injured in a vehicle that has attempted to run down a LEO? I've got a copy of both right by my keyboard and I must be overlooking it because everything I read seems to make reference to citizens of "the United States".

Let me be clear, I'm not saying that they (meaning illegals or anyone else) are animals and we should just be able to shoot them and good riddance. Nor does being a LEO give you carte blanche to just open fire on a vehicle for no reason and because you want to since LEO have criteria that they are to follow. I'm saying that according to the Deputy, she was hidden in the wheel well area and was injured while she and the others were active participants in the commission of a crime.

We all hear about "Castle Doctrine's" being passed to protect our rights to defend ourselves, yet our LEO's who have been hired to perform a duty are then being prosecuted when they try to do their job. This isn't meant as a we/they thing, but if the D.A.'s, State A.G.'s, and U.S. A.G.'s are so willing to prosecute the people who (basically) work under them, how quick are they going to be to take the average citizen to trial.

It's a wonder to me that anyone would even consider becoming a LEO.
1. The pay is terrible (average in our County is about $10.00 an hour for experienced personel and that is if you don't put in any time "off the clock")
2. most of the people you come into contact with don't want you around (since usually at least one of them is doing something wrong) and aren't happy to see you
3. and apparently if you don't do your job, you are fired, but if you do do your job, you are prosecuted because they (meaning A.G.'s and the like) would rather believe criminals rather than LEO's.

I wasn't there with Deputy Hernandez so I don't know all of the details of what went on but with what information I can find, what is going on is just plain wrong!

[dualcert]

Rodney, research the facts and then TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!
This has to be brought to light so this doesn't mark the beginning of some terrible things to come for us!!!!!
I see that you are a Texan, you apparantly didn't know about this either? I guess the media doesn't find it news worthy, the story of a LEO in the performance of his duties being fed to the wolves of the border issue!!!

[beardman2]

I don't know anything about this case other than what you have provided so I will not speak to this case but in general.

We are seeing more and more of these cases and the biggest thing that strikes me is there seems to be the opinion that their being illegal has some effect on what happened. I believe the constitution is generally applied to anyone within our borders. Now like you I don't see where it says that. I however have no problem with this. Because I believe very strongly in the founding ideals (all men created equal and all that). What I want to be very sure is the facts of the case are what is talked about and not who the people were. The fact that someone is say a suspected rapist or child molester would make it real easy for it to be overlooked that the rules were not followed. Obviously we can't allow that. As attractive as it is. I'm all for speeding up the justice process though. Someone recently mentioned a 90 day special court of appeals when people are sentenced to death as a good example.

IMHO anyone in this country should get their day in court. Be them LEO (only in this list because of the case), Rapist, Child molester, or illegal alien.

Item number two that scares me a little bit is the fact that there seems to be a growing desire to effect the outcome of cases be stirring up enough outrage. It may be justified but as citizens who want the best for our country how do we balance the desire for justice with the caution that we do not also open a way to effect our own version of what justice means. IE what if a news agency picks it up and vilifies the agents and public opinion swings the other way?

And finally number three that will piss anyone off who isn't already. What are the rules as far as shooting out tires? I fully understand officers shooting into cars when they are being run down. A vehicle is a deadly weapon in the right conditions. HOWEVER, if he was shooting at the rear tire. Which from my understanding of the info provided means the vehicle would have been next to or past him. He was in that instant not in danger. Again this is where the whole shooting tires out in your state comes into play. I don't know how it is in AZ. The problem is he fired and hit an innocent person. now wait a sec! I didn't say being here illegally isn't a crime. But the person he hit was not committing the crime that caused him to use his weapon.

I'll give an example although admittedly probably a bad one. So for instance a LEO was shot at. While the suspect is fleeing the officer draws his weapon and fires 4 times. Missing the bad guy but hitting a 6 year old illegal alien playing across the street. Ohhh but wait... its a little kid. Emotion comes in to play again. The point I'm trying to get across is lets make sure the legal process works. If this guy is innocent let us all believe the system will find him so. After all it will be a jury of his peers (sort of). If when the verdict comes out we feel there has been a miscarriage of justice lets all do what we can. But again I caution even "technicalities" are laws. We can't pick which ones we want to enforce and which ones we don't.

[dualcert]

Beardman, I agree wholeheartedly that justice needs to be served without personal bias.
All I ask is that you folks do your own research!! You'd research an ammo you heard about, or a new gun. Heck I spend more time goofing around wasting time on the Internet than it would take to find out what really happened out in west Texas in April 2005!!
I just spent 45 mins. talking to the Sheriff of Edwards County Texas. I got his take on the situation, found out their policies. Found out that D/S Hernandez was actually indicted on 2 charges at first, but was exonerated of one, but found guilty of the same charge as the first.

People just do some digging, form your own opinion. If your opinion leads you to believe that an injustice has been done to D/S Hernandez, call or email your elected state representatives!!!!

[beardman2]

Originally Posted by dualcert

Beardman, I agree wholeheartedly that justice needs to be served without personal bias.
All I ask is that you folks do your own research!! You'd research an ammo you heard about, or a new gun. Heck I spend more time goofing around wasting time on the Internet than it would take to find out what really happened out in west Texas in April 2005!!
I just spent 45 mins. talking to the Sheriff of Edwards County Texas. I got his take on the situation, found out their policies. Found out that D/S Hernandez was actually indicted on 2 charges at first, but was exonerated of one, but found guilty of the same charge as the first.

People just do some digging, form your own opinion. If your opinion leads you to believe that an injustice has been done to D/S Hernandez, call or email your elected state representatives!!!!

Can you share what their policies are?

[dualcert]

Beardman, I don't want to misqoute, I don't have the printed verbatim P&P manual and that would cause more damage to the situation. I will say that lethal force was justified per his departments P&P and his Sheriffs view of the situation. I will provide the # to the Edwards Co. Sheriffs Department.
(830)683-4104. The Sheriffs name is Dan Letsinger, real nice man and was willing to talk to me about the situation.

[rodnocker1]

You are right dualcert, this is the first I've heard about Deputy Hernandez. Although it probably won't do any good, I've sent letters to both of my Senators and several Representatives. It looks like Agents Ramos and Compean may be pardoned because of the three Agents who testified against them changing their stories.

From what I have been able to glean from all of the information available to me, it seems that Deputy Hernandez wasn't going to be charged until the Mexican Consulate and Government demanded that charges be brought against him.

[beardman2]

Originally Posted by dualcert

Beardman, I don't want to misqoute, I don't have the printed verbatim P&P manual and that would cause more damage to the situation. I will say that lethal force was justified per his departments P&P and his Sheriffs view of the situation. I will provide the # to the Edwards Co. Sheriffs Department.
(830)683-4104. The Sheriffs name is Dan Letsinger, real nice man and was willing to talk to me about the situation.

I'll take your word for it. I'm sure he has more important things to do then be bothered by me. I guess in the long run its the law we are worried about and not the policies of that department.