Baca seeks to limit hollow point use - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Jeff XD · 02-16-2007, 10:09 PM

http://www.house.gov/baca/latestnews/release062003.htm
Baca seeks prohibition on use of lethal hollow point bullets at borders

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Representative Joe Baca (D-Rialto) initiated a letter today to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, expressing opposition to the use of hollow point or “controlled expansion” bullets by agents in the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection in the Department of Homeland Security.
The Department is currently soliciting proposals for up to 225 million rounds of ammunition to be used during routine border patrols. The Congressman said that border patrol agents have no need to use such lethal ammunition.
“We are trying to prevent the use of hollow point bullets because they are a highly lethal form of ammunition,” Baca said. “If you shoot a gun with this sort of bullet, you are shooting to kill.”
Hollow point bullets are a type of ammunition designed to expand upon hitting a target. The impact forces the bullet to mushroom open, expanding to 160 percent its original size. This causes a large wound cavity and increases the likelihood of death.
“The concern is that immigrants, including women and children, trying to come across our borders will be killed instantly by the bullets,” Baca said. “We want to protect our borders, but that does not mean that customs agents have a license to kill.”
Although many police departments in major cities use hollow point bullets, their justifications do not apply at the border. The New York City Police Department argues that using the bullet inside the city limit is necessary because it is less likely to ricochet injuring innocent bystanders.
“Custom agents, have no reason to use this sort of bullet. They do not work in the city, around large groups of people, or buildings,” Baca said. “The likelihood of a bullet ricocheting is very slim. There simply is no reason to use the hollow points in that type of environment.”
Joining Baca as cosigners on the letter are Congressional Hispanic Caucus Chair Ciro Rodriguez (D-TX), Raul Grijalva (D-AZ0, Luis Gutierrez (D-IL), Ed Pastor (D-AZ), and Jim McDermott (D-WA). A total of 9 members have joined Baca on the letter.

I think the "best" quote in the article is
Baca said. “If you shoot a gun with this sort of bullet, you are shooting to kill.”
I would really hope the Customs agents not be shooting at anybody unless they were in fear for their life.

**Old School** · 02-16-2007, 10:11 PM

For the love of God, can we get this idiot out of office...

retired · 02-16-2007, 11:36 PM

No, OS, we cannot. He continues to be re-elected by the people in his area; a highly Democratic and large Latino constituency. In fact, he has two sons and for awhile, it looked like a Baca dynasty was beginning.

Fortunately, the son already in office was lost this last election and the other one never made it into office; also losing.

Baca will probably stay in office until term limits, then scoot over to the other house.

I guess it will be better to use fmj rounds that can pass thruoug the bad guy shooting and hit the lady and child behind him huh.

Gunzzi · 02-17-2007, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School

For the love of God, can we get this idiot out of office...

+1 - Why don't we just issue water ballons instead?!?!?!?!

AZBill · 02-17-2007, 05:28 AM

Perhaps we should arm them with slingshots like the TJ police are carrying now?

WTF do these goofball idiots think is going on at the border? Heavily armed drug dealers backed by active Mexican cops and military, are crossing in to the US every single day. Border patrol agents should not only have hollowpoints, they should carry MP5s, Uzis, M4s and have truck mounted 50s. The idea that border patrol are shooting women and babies with hollowpoints shows you how far the anti gunners are willing to go in congress.

mattjohnston87 · 02-17-2007, 05:41 AM

So lemme get this straight...

Not only do they not want civilians to have the "evil" hollow point expanding lethal ammunition, but now they want to make it illegal for Law Enforcement types PROTECTING our country!!?!!?!?!?!?

WTH!!! They never cease to amaze me.

Matt

amishclark · 02-17-2007, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff XD

The Congressman said that border patrol agents have no need to use such lethal ammunition.
“We are trying to prevent the use of hollow point bullets because they are a highly lethal form of ammunition,” Baca said. “If you shoot a gun with this sort of bullet, you are shooting to kill.”

“The concern is that immigrants, including women and children, trying to come across our borders will be killed instantly by the bullets,” Baca said. “We want to protect our borders, but that does not mean that customs agents have a license to kill.”

a: you should not be shooting at someone unless you intend to kill them.

b: why would you shoot at women and children, killing them instantly?

this guy is a moron.

jednp · 02-17-2007, 08:03 AM

next they will take these away from cops too. The whole purpose of having more lethal ammunition, is sometimes you HAVE to shoot to kill. There's absolutely no way around it. Honestly, how many times do border patrol agents use their guns on the border? They only use them when they encounter a serious threat and need to stop it.. which I think is very rare.

But heck, with all the border patrol agents being murdered along the border, we might as well make them wear some tru-glo tritium bullseye's on their back and front of their shirt. and also handcuff their hands while they are on duty.

ichy_trigger · 02-17-2007, 08:15 AM

Just give them a club and make them promise not to strike someone in the head, esspecialy women and kids. This guy needs some more crack!

TeflonKid · 02-17-2007, 09:21 AM

I think you guys are missing a key point. A hollow point has less chance of over penetration. This guy is actually enacting legislation that IS endangering the lives of woman and children who are unlucky enough to get hit with a bullet that didn't expand and stop in the intended target. Ofcourse when said woman and children get killed, the BP agent will be charged with murder.

02-16-2007, 10:09 PM	#1
Jeff XD XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 174	Baca seeks to limit hollow point use http://www.house.gov/baca/latestnews/release062003.htm Baca seeks prohibition on use of lethal hollow point bullets at borders WASHINGTON, D.C. – Representative Joe Baca (D-Rialto) initiated a letter today to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, expressing opposition to the use of hollow point or “controlled expansion” bullets by agents in the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection in the Department of Homeland Security. The Department is currently soliciting proposals for up to 225 million rounds of ammunition to be used during routine border patrols. The Congressman said that border patrol agents have no need to use such lethal ammunition. “We are trying to prevent the use of hollow point bullets because they are a highly lethal form of ammunition,” Baca said. “If you shoot a gun with this sort of bullet, you are shooting to kill.” Hollow point bullets are a type of ammunition designed to expand upon hitting a target. The impact forces the bullet to mushroom open, expanding to 160 percent its original size. This causes a large wound cavity and increases the likelihood of death. “The concern is that immigrants, including women and children, trying to come across our borders will be killed instantly by the bullets,” Baca said. “We want to protect our borders, but that does not mean that customs agents have a license to kill.” Although many police departments in major cities use hollow point bullets, their justifications do not apply at the border. The New York City Police Department argues that using the bullet inside the city limit is necessary because it is less likely to ricochet injuring innocent bystanders. “Custom agents, have no reason to use this sort of bullet. They do not work in the city, around large groups of people, or buildings,” Baca said. “The likelihood of a bullet ricocheting is very slim. There simply is no reason to use the hollow points in that type of environment.” Joining Baca as cosigners on the letter are Congressional Hispanic Caucus Chair Ciro Rodriguez (D-TX), Raul Grijalva (D-AZ0, Luis Gutierrez (D-IL), Ed Pastor (D-AZ), and Jim McDermott (D-WA). A total of 9 members have joined Baca on the letter. I think the "best" quote in the article is Baca said. “If you shoot a gun with this sort of bullet, you are shooting to kill.” I would really hope the Customs agents not be shooting at anybody unless they were in fear for their life. __________________ XD40 Service Remington 870 Browning Buckmark

02-16-2007, 10:11 PM	#2
Old School XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 7,580	For the love of God, can we get this idiot out of office... __________________ Visit www.pistolgear.com for all of your XD needs!

02-17-2007, 08:15 AM	#9
ichy_trigger XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 7,417	Just give them a club and make them promise not to strike someone in the head, esspecialy women and kids. This guy needs some more crack! __________________ "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member2645.png

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02-16-2007, 11:36 PM	#3
retired XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: S. Calif. Posts: 5,320	No, OS, we cannot. He continues to be re-elected by the people in his area; a highly Democratic and large Latino constituency. In fact, he has two sons and for awhile, it looked like a Baca dynasty was beginning. Fortunately, the son already in office was lost this last election and the other one never made it into office; also losing. Baca will probably stay in office until term limits, then scoot over to the other house. I guess it will be better to use fmj rounds that can pass thruoug the bad guy shooting and hit the lady and child behind him huh.

02-17-2007, 05:28 AM	#5
AZBill XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 262	Perhaps we should arm them with slingshots like the TJ police are carrying now? WTF do these goofball idiots think is going on at the border? Heavily armed drug dealers backed by active Mexican cops and military, are crossing in to the US every single day. Border patrol agents should not only have hollowpoints, they should carry MP5s, Uzis, M4s and have truck mounted 50s. The idea that border patrol are shooting women and babies with hollowpoints shows you how far the anti gunners are willing to go in congress.

02-17-2007, 05:41 AM	#6
mattjohnston87 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montana Posts: 6,436	So lemme get this straight... Not only do they not want civilians to have the "evil" hollow point expanding lethal ammunition, but now they want to make it illegal for Law Enforcement types PROTECTING our country!!?!!?!?!?!? WTH!!! They never cease to amaze me. Matt

02-17-2007, 08:03 AM	#8
jednp XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 4,691	next they will take these away from cops too. The whole purpose of having more lethal ammunition, is sometimes you HAVE to shoot to kill. There's absolutely no way around it. Honestly, how many times do border patrol agents use their guns on the border? They only use them when they encounter a serious threat and need to stop it.. which I think is very rare. But heck, with all the border patrol agents being murdered along the border, we might as well make them wear some tru-glo tritium bullseye's on their back and front of their shirt. and also handcuff their hands while they are on duty.

02-17-2007, 09:21 AM	#10
TeflonKid XDTalk Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 61	I think you guys are missing a key point. A hollow point has less chance of over penetration. This guy is actually enacting legislation that IS endangering the lives of woman and children who are unlucky enough to get hit with a bullet that didn't expand and stop in the intended target. Ofcourse when said woman and children get killed, the BP agent will be charged with murder.