The right way, the wrong way, and the army way

[Delija]

Unbelievable.....let's wait 'till 2011? (at best)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16545885/

[manic mechanic]

What a shame. This should have been a priority instead of on the back burner.

[ichy_trigger]

Well, I dont know that we know ALL that needs to be known about it but from that report, I think it would definately be a big help in saving some lives. Collateral damage? If it hurts one guy standing beside the vehicle when it goes off, how many lives did it save INSIDE the vehicle?

[beardman2]

ah yes... the government can solve all our problems.

[Delija]

I don't know how many remember when Israel attacked the nuke facility in Baghdad in the 80s, but they used automotive rear view mirrors in their F16s 'cause the American version of the F16 didn't have any way to see directly behind...they were still working on some high tech deal while the Israelis used a $5 mirror. Also, the US was surprised that the Israelis could make such a long sorti....the range of the F16 wasn't enough. The Israelis just added a supplemental fuel tank, or something low tech but effective. And cheap.

Peace,
D.

[nickb]

Originally Posted by Delija

Unbelievable.....let's wait 'till 2011? (at best)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16545885/

Just snap your fingers and take care of it.

[Son of Norway]

I hate to sound like Patton on this but I think it's better to make the enemy figure out how they are going to deal with incoming RPG's.

[FrankRizzoXD40]

Originally Posted by Son of Norway

I hate to sound like Patton on this but I think it's better to make the enemy figure out how they are going to deal with incoming RPG's.

I agree. But why do you hate to sound like Patton?

Frank

[Delija]

Originally Posted by nickb

Just snap your fingers and take care of it.

???

I'm missing your point

Originally Posted by Son of Norway

I hate to sound like Patton on this but I think it's better to make the enemy figure out how they are going to deal with incoming RPG's.

Ideally, yeah...But as long as the enemy has RPGs, doesn't it make sense to have an weapon to counter them? An "anti-RPG rocket"? After all, we have the Patriot Missile, very effective at shooting down Scuds....if there were any Scud missiles to shoot down any more (are there?).

Remember when all the talk was about "anti-missile missiles"? Then "anti-anti-missile missile missiles"? (and on and on). Who can forget Kennedy's warning about the "missile gap" and then the brilliant Terry Southern dialogue about the "doomsday gap" and the "mineshaft gap" in Kubrick's classic "Dr. Strangelove" (my all time favorite black comedy, maybe my all-time favorite movie).

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"- President Muffley (Peter Sellers)

Originally Posted by FrankRizzoXD40

I agree. But why do you hate to sound like Patton?

Just a guess here, but maybe Son of Norway was thinking about George C. Scott's academy award winning portrayal of Patton which was not very complimentary to the General. In fact, it is fairly commonly acknowledged that Scott transposed some of the character of General Turgedson whom he played in "Dr. Strangelove"....the man with the lovably twisted military mind who saw Soviet plots everywhere, flirts with his girlfriend in the midst of a national crisis, believes "10-20 million American casualties (tops!) are acceptable", and wishes the U.S. had their own doomsday machine to match the Russians' capabilities. (Doomsday machine gap?).

How can anyone not love a movie in which the Pentagon refused to accept a collect call from the Russian premier during a missile crisis that will momentarily result in the end of the world? And from Premier Kissoff himself no less. LOL

Note to self.....time to rent that movie again. Haven't seen it in at least 20-25 years. Maybe more. Suggestion to anyone who has not seen it...SEE IT. Ideally see it as a double feature, with "Fail Safe" first (same plot, very different interpretation).

As for the real Patton....while few would question his abilities as a wartime tactician and strategist, (kill them before they kill you), he left much to be desired as a leader of men. His infamous assault of a "shell schocked" enlisted man, his tearful breakdown when he cried on Eisenhower's shoulder (real events), were not the stuff of true heroes. His stated ambition to take over the world was also more than a bit much. We were fighting to STOP that kind of aggression, not to replace it with our own version.

Today, we often hear how we should annihilate the Middle East - turn it to glass, etc. We hear about how it's fine to torture and humiliate prisoner's of war (as we saw at Abu Ghraib). We seem to have orchestrated the hanging of Saddam Hussein for crimes committed before the US made nice to him and gave him weapons, political backing and funding in Reagan's "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" doctrine.

Those now famous photos of Rumsfeld and Saddam are very real. No "Photoshop" trickery there. IIRC, that visit was in 1982, while Saddam had killed the people he was hanged for a year earlier. And we knew it.

People say there's no difference between Republicans and Democrats. But when it comes to the politics of convenience, there certainly seems to be a great difference. Look at the situation in Iraq. Why are we there? This year's answer is not last years. Last years is not that of the year before, etc., etc. - When was "Mission Accomplished" declared?

[/rant off]


Peace,
D.

[jdavionic]

Originally Posted by Delija

Unbelievable.....let's wait 'till 2011? (at best)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16545885/

It sure reads like some of the experiences that I have seen working with our great defense folks. There's a lot of politics in the military procurement.

It's true that everything, except for some special cases, gets tested to the nth degree before becoming available to the troops. And it's also true that hands are somewhat tied if you ventured down one path that was approved and underway, that it's difficult steering the ship in a different direction. I'm sure there's more to the story that NBC was able to dig up. But on the surface, it's disappointing.