June 28, 2005

[FrankRizzoXD40]

Originally Posted by bd

Consistently wrong....you are correct!



You gotta look at it like this....



As the article implies, can anyone point out one good call that Bush has made so far about Iraq?



bd

Now I know I'm on bd's ignore list (no need to read opinions that you don't agree with right ), but here is an answer to his question for the rest of you.

Off the top of my head:

Not to delay the Iraqi elections (twice) due to increased violence and the fears of increased violence.

Assault fallujah and rid the city of insurgents.

Capturing Saddam Hussein.

Almost all of the senior leadership of the Baath party has been captured, as well as Saddams senior military leadership.

Not to interfere with the execution of Saddam Hussein.

Capture Saddam's sons.

Kill al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-qaeda in Iraq.

Prevent the insurgency from gaining control of the oil fields.

3 provinces are now under Iraqi control.

Violence has been virtually ended in about 10 of the 13 Iraqi provinces.

General (State Dept):
Completed refurbishment of many of the 3,000 schools across the country slated for repair by the United States;

Installed the Advanced First Responder Network, a high-tech data and voice communications system linking police, fire and emergency services across 14 provinces.

Initiated a series of major capital projects to build new water purification and distribution systems, including a plant scheduled to open in Erbil in August that will provide drinking water for 300,000 area residents.

Iraqi And Coalition Forces Have Cleared And Are Holding The City Of Najaf.

Education (usaid.org):

Since 2003, USAID has rehabilitated nearly 3,000 schools. Over 20 million new textbooks have been supplied by USAID (8.6 million) and UNESCO (12 million). By mid-2006, more than 120,000 primary school teachers - nearly a third of Iraq's educators - will have received training and technical assistance.

2,962 schools have been rehabilitated in full or in part since 2003.

Hundreds of thousands of desks, chairs, cabinets, chalkboards, and more than 3 million school kits have been distributed countrywide.

55,000 teachers and administrators have been trained. By the end of the 2005-06 school year more than 120,000 educators will have received in-service training supported by USAID since 2004.

Eighty-four primary and secondary schools (four in each governorate) are being established to serve as model schools. Teachers will receive specialized training, and schools will be equipped with computer and science laboratories.

An accelerated learning program, targeting 14,000 out-of-school youth, is being implemented during the 2005-2006 school year.

To improve resource management, a comprehensive Education Management Information System is being developed and MOE staff are being trained.

Satellite Internet access and computers were installed at the Ministry of Education and in all 21 Directorates of Education.

More than 8.7 million math and science textbooks have been edited, printed, and distributed throughout Iraq.

Partnerships were established between five American and 10 Iraqi universities. Through these partnerships, more than 1,500 Iraqi faculty and students have participated in workshops, trainings, conferences, and courses in Iraq, the Middle East, Europe, and the United States.

University facilities, such as libraries, computer and science laboratories, lecture halls, and buildings, have been rehabilitated at colleges of law, engineering, medicine, archeology, and agriculture. In addition, books and electronic resources have been provided to university libraries.

Health (usaid.org):
Provided skills training to 3,200 primary care providers and physicians.

Trained 2,000 health educators, teachers, religious leaders, and youth to mobilize communities on hygiene, diarrhea, breastfeeding, nutrition, and immunization issues.

Established training and education centers in five governorates to support local healthcare training.

Provided vaccines and cold chain equipment to selected remote health centers along with training of staff and social mobilization has increased routine immunization coverage from 60 to 74 percent.

Minimized epidemics by re-establishing a disease surveillance and response system.

Water and Sanitation (usaid.org):
Restored or provided new water treatment to over 2.3 million Iraqis and sewage treatment to over 5.1 million.

Expanded Sharq Dijlah water plant by 50 MGD and rehabilitated three sewage plants, which serve 80 percent of Baghdad's population, thus eliminating dumping raw sewage into the Tigris.

Kerkh wastewater treatment plant (WTP) began operating on May 19, 2004, the first major Iraqi plant to operate at full capacity in more than 12 years.

Standby generators have been procured and installed at 27 Baghdad water facilities, ensuring continued supply of treated water in the event of power outages.

Refurbished existing sewage lines and pump stations serving the Kadhamiya area of western Baghdad.

Rehabilitated the Sweet Water Canal system: repairing breaches, cleaning and repairing the main water storage and settling reservoir and refurbishing 14 water treatment plants around Basrah city.

Treated water production increased by over 100 percent, serving over 1.1 million additional people.

Rehabilitated two water plants and four sewage plants.

Najaf, Diwaniyah, Hillah, and Karbala sewage plants serve nearly 1 million people.

Water treatment plants in Najaf and Karbala serve more than 375,000residents and pilgrims near one of Iraq's holiest shrines.

Provided major equipment for Mosul Water and Sewer Directorates. Refurbished the Kirkuk WTP.

www.usaid.org

Frank

[grahamstein]

Originally Posted by FrankRizzoXD40

Now I know I'm on bd's ignore list (no need to read opinions that you don't agree with right ), but here is an answer to his question for the rest of you.

Off the top of my head:

Not to delay the Iraqi elections (twice) due to increased violence and the fears of increased violence.

Assault fallujah and rid the city of insurgents.

Capturing Saddam Hussein.

Almost all of the senior leadership of the Baath party has been captured, as well as Saddams senior military leadership.

Not to interfere with the execution of Saddam Hussein.

Capture Saddam's sons.

Kill al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-qaeda in Iraq.

Prevent the insurgency from gaining control of the oil fields.

3 provinces are now under Iraqi control.

Violence has been virtually ended in about 10 of the 13 Iraqi provinces.

General (State Dept):
Completed refurbishment of many of the 3,000 schools across the country slated for repair by the United States;

Installed the Advanced First Responder Network, a high-tech data and voice communications system linking police, fire and emergency services across 14 provinces.

Initiated a series of major capital projects to build new water purification and distribution systems, including a plant scheduled to open in Erbil in August that will provide drinking water for 300,000 area residents.

Iraqi And Coalition Forces Have Cleared And Are Holding The City Of Najaf.

Education (usaid.org):

Since 2003, USAID has rehabilitated nearly 3,000 schools. Over 20 million new textbooks have been supplied by USAID (8.6 million) and UNESCO (12 million). By mid-2006, more than 120,000 primary school teachers - nearly a third of Iraq's educators - will have received training and technical assistance.

2,962 schools have been rehabilitated in full or in part since 2003.

Hundreds of thousands of desks, chairs, cabinets, chalkboards, and more than 3 million school kits have been distributed countrywide.

55,000 teachers and administrators have been trained. By the end of the 2005-06 school year more than 120,000 educators will have received in-service training supported by USAID since 2004.

Eighty-four primary and secondary schools (four in each governorate) are being established to serve as model schools. Teachers will receive specialized training, and schools will be equipped with computer and science laboratories.

An accelerated learning program, targeting 14,000 out-of-school youth, is being implemented during the 2005-2006 school year.

To improve resource management, a comprehensive Education Management Information System is being developed and MOE staff are being trained.

Satellite Internet access and computers were installed at the Ministry of Education and in all 21 Directorates of Education.

More than 8.7 million math and science textbooks have been edited, printed, and distributed throughout Iraq.

Partnerships were established between five American and 10 Iraqi universities. Through these partnerships, more than 1,500 Iraqi faculty and students have participated in workshops, trainings, conferences, and courses in Iraq, the Middle East, Europe, and the United States.

University facilities, such as libraries, computer and science laboratories, lecture halls, and buildings, have been rehabilitated at colleges of law, engineering, medicine, archeology, and agriculture. In addition, books and electronic resources have been provided to university libraries.

Health (usaid.org):
Provided skills training to 3,200 primary care providers and physicians.

Trained 2,000 health educators, teachers, religious leaders, and youth to mobilize communities on hygiene, diarrhea, breastfeeding, nutrition, and immunization issues.

Established training and education centers in five governorates to support local healthcare training.

Provided vaccines and cold chain equipment to selected remote health centers along with training of staff and social mobilization has increased routine immunization coverage from 60 to 74 percent.

Minimized epidemics by re-establishing a disease surveillance and response system.

Water and Sanitation (usaid.org):
Restored or provided new water treatment to over 2.3 million Iraqis and sewage treatment to over 5.1 million.

Expanded Sharq Dijlah water plant by 50 MGD and rehabilitated three sewage plants, which serve 80 percent of Baghdad's population, thus eliminating dumping raw sewage into the Tigris.

Kerkh wastewater treatment plant (WTP) began operating on May 19, 2004, the first major Iraqi plant to operate at full capacity in more than 12 years.

Standby generators have been procured and installed at 27 Baghdad water facilities, ensuring continued supply of treated water in the event of power outages.

Refurbished existing sewage lines and pump stations serving the Kadhamiya area of western Baghdad.

Rehabilitated the Sweet Water Canal system: repairing breaches, cleaning and repairing the main water storage and settling reservoir and refurbishing 14 water treatment plants around Basrah city.

Treated water production increased by over 100 percent, serving over 1.1 million additional people.

Rehabilitated two water plants and four sewage plants.

Najaf, Diwaniyah, Hillah, and Karbala sewage plants serve nearly 1 million people.

Water treatment plants in Najaf and Karbala serve more than 375,000residents and pilgrims near one of Iraq's holiest shrines.

Provided major equipment for Mosul Water and Sewer Directorates. Refurbished the Kirkuk WTP.

www.usaid.org

Frank

Wow that is a very informed and well researched post. Bravo! I think its become fashionable to hate bush these days. The thing about fasion though is that no one ever has a good explanation why.

That said, i dont like bush myself, but believe it or not, i think the iraq war is not something that he has done "wrong". I think its a good target, with alot of bad press. Think about it like this, we have invaded and overthrown the government of 2, count em 2 countries during "W's" presidency, how often do you hear bad press about afghanistan? Actually, how often do you hear ANY press about it? You dont, because things there are combarably better.

I dont like bush, but i dont like him because of economical/ethical issues, like banning 2nd trimester abortions. And i think in a general stance, he neglects alot of other current issues because he is constantly fighting off attacks about iraq.

I think if half the people who bash bush knew the real facts, rather than just pointing a finger because they think it will make them look better, this country would be a far better place.

[FrankRizzoXD40]

Originally Posted by grahamstein

Wow that is a very informed and well researched post. Bravo! I think its become fashionable to hate bush these days. The thing about fasion though is that no one ever has a good explanation why.

That said, i dont like bush myself, but believe it or not, i think the iraq war is not something that he has done "wrong". I think its a good target, with alot of bad press. Think about it like this, we have invaded and overthrown the government of 2, count em 2 countries during "W's" presidency, how often do you hear bad press about afghanistan? Actually, how often do you hear ANY press about it? You dont, because things there are combarably better.

I dont like bush, but i dont like him because of economical/ethical issues, like banning 2nd trimester abortions. And i think in a general stance, he neglects alot of other current issues because he is constantly fighting off attacks about iraq.

I think if half the people who bash bush knew the real facts, rather than just pointing a finger because they think it will make them look better, this country would be a far better place.

Good post and thanks. I respect your opinion about the President and I am glad that you can give him a fair shake, despite the fact that you don't like him. I wish more people would do the same. Just because someone doesn't like the President doesn't automatically make him a "moron" or a "fascist" as some like to suggest in this forum.

There is lots of good news from Iraq, but it NEVER makes it into the media. It's a really sad thing. SO many Iraqi's and their children have been helped by our soldiers and it all goes unnoticed.

Just to warn you, you are probably going to get flamed for saying that things are going good in Afghanistan. I believe things are going well, but there are liberals and bush-haters here who will probably post some stuff about opium production and attempts of resurgence (they have failed) by former agents of the Taliban. Some people just can't get enough of the bad things! Good things/progress is always ignored if it doesn't help substantiate the opinions of certain people. Afhganistan has largely been a huge success, mostly in part because the people seem to be more willing to fight for their freedoms and stand up to the Taliban than the Iraqi's have. This is probably due in part to the length of control and the brutality of the Saddam regime.

Afghanistan is now a free country, it's a democracy, women can vote, and it is now an ally in the war on terror. Isn't that good progress? To go from the nation where the 9/11 attacks were planned, where the Taliban brutalized the Afhganis, where terrorists were trained to an ally in the war on terror???? I think that's quite an accomplishment.

Frank

[einheit 13]

Originally Posted by FrankRizzoXD40

There is lots of good news from Iraq, but it NEVER makes it into the media. It's a really sad thing. SO many Iraqi's and their children have been helped by our soldiers and it all goes unnoticed.


Frank

you're right about Afghanistan.......But on Iraq, alot has gone wrong also. Civil war, a new 'democratized' country that its own people won't defend, even with 20,000 more troops were still facing 180/1 (population/US troops). What happens if even half of them, even a 1/4 of them decide they want us out and take up arms?? Seriously, all political lines bedamned, what will we do if tomorrow Iraqis decide they no longer want us in thier country and tell us to leave, and if we say no, use force to move us?? What would you say we should do??

[eleanor]

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

SURPRISE! President Bush never lost a Presidential election.

You know what this means eleanor.....you started your rant based on a FALSE PREMISE..

Your entire pile of reasoning is bogus because of the FALSE PREMISE you presented when you said, "he lost the election."



Tom

O.K. -- Did I MENTION "Presidential Election"??

No! The Repubs. lost the MIDTERM elections. Didn't they?

They lost control of the entire Congress -- both houses.

Until that loss -- he was still saying "we are winning" (two weeks before the election). After the party he is the head of (as president) lost -- he began to change his tune.

Even a "surge" is a major change for GWB.

BY the way, there was no "assumption" made -- it was just a reporting of events, with my opinions about them.

You have heard of "opinions" -- haven't you? -- aren't yours given to you on a regular basis?

Thank you for attempting to revisit an old thread. Are you upset I haven't yet posted a rebuttal? Was that meant to goad me?

Well, I'll decide tomorrow. First I'm going to the range -- that usually helps get me thinking clearly. It's fun trying to make one hole out of many smaller ones.

[newKid]

Originally Posted by eleanor

First I'm going to the range -- that usually helps get me thinking clearly. It's fun trying to make one hole out of many smaller ones.

something we all agree on!!!

[tomk]

Originally Posted by FrankRizzoXD40

... Just to warn you, you are probably going to get flamed for saying that things are going good in Afghanistan. I believe things are going well, but there are liberals and bush-haters here who will probably post some stuff about opium production and attempts of resurgence (they have failed) by former agents of the Taliban. Some people just can't get enough of the bad things! Good things/progress is always ignored if it doesn't help substantiate the opinions of certain people. ...
Frank

To tell the truth, I'm a bit embarrased to say I don't know a whole lot about what's going on in Afghanistan. I do know it's become fashionable to disparage anyone who posts anything negative about anything this administration does as "liberals" and/or "Bush-haters" as if that's going to make the arguments go away. The other side aren't much better. They use "Bush lovers" as just as derogatory a phrase as you use "Bush hater".

It seems to me that's one of the major problems this country has now - we are so polarized that one side can't even seem to listen to the other past the first word, let alone try to work out some middle road. The problem exists from grass roots folks like us in our forum all the way to Congress and Pennsylvania Avenue. Bush's label for anyone who even mentions troop reduction in any context is "cut and run" with a massivly negative connotation rather than simply argue his case. Same with "Bush-hater", "liberal" (with the negative connotation), "Bush lover" or whatever. My opinion is that resorting to name calling like that is simply an indication of an inability to put forth a convincing argument. When it starts with the leadership, however, it seems worse because that sets what I think of as an inappropriate example.

Don't have any real place to go with this - I know I'm getting real tired labels being tossed around as if it's the crux of the argument.

Later ... range this morning, tee time this afternoon. Life is good ...