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sammi · 11-30-2006, 05:39 AM

to clarify, a muslim is an english word which means submitter in arabic. Islaam is an english word which means submission in arabic. In that sence every prophet submitted to god. Every prophet was a submitter (muslim).

what some muslim may say is the "3 abrahamic religions/roots" and this is a false concept for a muslim to belive in. As a muslim we say that abraham was not a jew, not a christian. Yes, one of his sons is a stem for the arabs and the other for the jews and these are races, not religion. Those who followed the scripture given to moses were submitters (muslims) those who accepted jesus when he came to them, were all submitters (muslims). There is a diffrence between their race and religion. Just like Jesus (peace be upon him) he was born as a jew, he spoke hebrew, he followed the scripture of moses, he was brought from he jews TO the jews to bring them to the correct path that moses was on. As he said himself.. "i have not come but unto the lost sheep of israel" which were the jews. So jesus was a submitter (muslim) that was his religion. Did he not submit himself to the comands of god?

sammi · 11-30-2006, 05:51 AM

"And who turns away from the religion of Abraham (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) except him who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous.

When his Lord said to him: "Submit (i.e. be a Muslim)!" He said: "I have submitted myself (as a Muslim) to the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists)."
And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Abraham upon his sons and by Jacob, (saying). "O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam (as Muslims Islamic Monotheism)."

Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob? When he said unto his sons: ‘What will you worship after me?’ They said. ‘We shall worship you Ilah (God - Allah) the Ilah (God) of your fathers, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, One Ilah (God), and to Him we submit (in Islam)."

That was a nation who has passed away. They shall receive the reward of what they earned and you of what you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do.
And they say: "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided." Say (to them, O Muhammad): "Nay, (we follow) only the religion of Abraham, Hanifan [Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah (Alone)] and he was not of Al-Mushrikeen (those who worshiped others along with Allah.)"

Say (O Muslims), 'We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and to Al-Asbat (the twelve sons of Jacob), and that which has been given to Moses and Jesus, and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam).’
So if they believe in the like of that which you believe, then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allah will suffice you against them. And he is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.

[Our Sibghah (religion) is] the Sibghah (religion) of Allah (Islam) and which Sibghah (religion) can be better than Allah’s. And we are His worshipers.

Say (O Muhammad, to the Jews and Christians). "Dispute you with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? And we are to be rewarded for our deeds and you for your deeds. And we are sincere to Him in worship and obedience (i.e. we worship Him Alone and none else, and we obey His Orders)." Or say you that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and Al-Asbat (the twelve sons of Jacob) were Jews or Christians? Say: "Do you know better or does Allah (know better ... that they all were Muslims)? And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony [i.e. to believe in Prophet Muhammad when he comes, written in their books] he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do." (Surah 2: 130-140)

abraham did not worship god "just as he saw fit". He recieved guidace from his lord and he did recieve scripture from his lord. We call them the scrolls of abraham. You need to learn about the story of abraham in islaam. take a seat before you take a stand. I will give you a link to where you can read this story... http://www.bysiness.co.uk/excerpts/excerpabrahamikathir.htm i am unaware of the authenticity of the other info on that site, so just go to the story of abraham which i know is authentic.

sammi · 11-30-2006, 06:01 AM

Just as a person can become a muslim there are certain things which can take the person out of the fold of islaam. You like to call this "excomunicated" we call it takfeer. For example, as a muslim we are required to belive in the previouse scrptures that god sent down to mankind. If a muslim now says that since he doesnt like what the jews are doing in the midle east and then says "i am not going to belive the scripture of moses" this can take a muslim out of the fold of islam and that statement of his/her would make him a disbliever. There are other things which can take someone out of the fold of islam such as not wanting to belive in angles which is a pillar of faith, or believing that he doesnt need to pray the obligatory 5 prayer that every muslim must do.

However if a muslim sins, for example fornicates or drinks wine.. beer ect... then this does not take him out of the fold of islaam. These are sins and he is subjected to repentance. Just because sombody is a muslim does not mean he gets a free ticket to heaven. Allah says the belivers will go to heaven. Every believer is a muslim but not every muslim is a beliver. There will be muslims who will be punished in hell for sins which they have commted in this life, if they havnt repented in this life. But sooner or later after their due punishment in hell all muslims wil be removed from it.

I hope this clarifies issue about excommnication in islaam

gsh341 · 11-30-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammi

to clarify, a muslim is an English word which means submitter in Arabic. Islaam is an English word which means submission in Arabic. In that sence every prophet submitted to god. Every prophet was a submitter (muslim).

what some muslim may say is the "3 Abrahamic religions/roots" and this is a false concept for a muslim to believe in. As a muslim we say that Abraham was not a Jew, not a Christian. Yes, one of his sons is a stem for the Arabs and the other for the Jews and these are races, not religion. Those who followed the scripture given to moses were submitters (muslims) those who accepted Jesus when he came to them, were all submitters (muslims). There is a difference between their race and religion. Just like Jesus (peace be upon him) he was born as a Jew, he spoke Hebrew, he followed the scripture of moses, he was brought from he Jews TO the Jews to bring them to the correct path that moses was on. As he said himself.. "i have not come but unto the lost sheep of Israel" which were the Jews. So Jesus was a submitter (muslim) that was his religion. Did he not submit himself to the commands of god?

So, If I understand what you are saying, then anyone, Christian or Jew... who acknowledges God and submits to His will is a Muslim? Because if it is you have just opened a BIG can of theological worms.

Personally, I don't care that the words "islam" or "muslim" mean "submitter" in the Arabic dictionary. It is the name of a religion and a member of that religion when capitalized and when used as such it has a separate definition. For example, "polish" is a word meaning to make shiny or a substance use to make something shine, while "Polish" is the term for someone or something from Poland. They are not the same thing. So "Muslim" and "muslim" are also not the same thing. Thus, while Abraham was a submitter to God, (as are Christians and Jews) he was not a member of the Islamic faith as set down by Mohammad.

sammi · 11-30-2006, 09:39 AM

ok were getting somewhere, but that polish example is crazy. Abaraham and all the prophets were submitters, but they did not follow the laws that the propet mohammad (peace be upon him) brought as they lived beore his time. Had they come after him they would be following his laws. Moses had his laws to convey to his people and thus the people had to follow his message to attain salvation. The laws change over time to suit the needs of the people at that time in their society... HOWEVER the outlying message of all the prophets was the SAME. They preached monotheism that is to SHUN false dieties and to worship god alone. THis is what the prophets and messengers came here to do..to deliver guidance from the creator to the creation and tell them that god is 1. None of us will disagree to that. They all sumitted themselves in that sence to obey god and follow his commandments and do their job as role models for their people. This doesnt mean they are muslims in the sence they follow the prophet mohammad (peace be upon him).

If the jews followed the teachigns that moses (peace be upon him) brought to them without altering the mesage they are the ones that attained salvation.
"Surely, We sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light; by its laws the Jews have been judged by the prophets who surrendered themselves to Allah, the rabbis and the doctors of law, because they were entrusted the protection of Allah's book and were witnesses thereto" (5:44).

WHen jesus (peace be upon him) came to the jews, who ever of the jews found the prophecies of jesus (peace be upon him) and accepted his message and followed his guidance they are the ones that attained salvation.

"And we gave him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition to the God-fearing" (5:46); "And to make lawful to you certain things that, before, were forbidden to you" (3:50).

But other jews dienied him and hid the prophcies about him and became arrogant.these are the ones that arent real submitters (muslims).

"So woe to those who write the Book with their hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' that they may sell it for a little price. So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for their earnings" (2:79);

Now it is the same when the last prophet came mohammad (peace be upon him) there are prophecies in your books of him and he is claiming to come from the same source that all the prophets came from. That same line of saying that god is one and shunning away all false dieties. Whoever accepts him and follows his guidance will attain salvation, they are the real submitters (muslims) or belivers. The ones that deny him will be delt by god in the next life. If a person is a muslim he MUST belive in the previuose messengers including jesus and moses all the way to adam, they must accept the scriptures they came with.

Say [O you who believe!]: "We believe in Allah, in that which has been revealed to us; in that which was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendents (Jacob's sons); in that which was given to Moses and Jesus; and in that which was given to the Prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him we are Muslimun (Muslims)" (2.136).

but just as the outling message is the same the people in this nation must follow the guidance of the last prophet and not the guidance of prophets that came 2000 years ago. Just like jews were requiered to follow jesus when jesus came to them.

"People of the Book! Our Messenger has come to you, making clear to you many things you have been concealing of the Book and forgiving you of much. A light has come to you from Allah and a glorious Book, with which He will guide whoever follows His pleasure in the way of peace, and brings them forth from darkness into the light by His will" (5:15-16).

i hope this is clear now

KP Ling · 11-30-2006, 09:44 AM

Sammi,

min matha balad int? ana akhdan yikallim shwayyit al-arabiy.

Anyway, I am not Muslim but having spent much time with them and studied the religion I have some insight. I do not think sammi has come right out and said it but he hinted around at it with the discussion of muslim=submitter. Sammi correct me if I'm wrong but it is held in Islam that there is only one true religion, Islam itself. Adam is considered the first Muslim and first prophet of Islam and that all prophets from him to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, David, Moses, Jesus, others that are not known to Jews or Christians and Muhammad have all taught one religion...Islam. Muslims, as we know them today, believe that all throughout history prophets have taught their people Islam but it invariably becomes corrupted and so God has to send more prophets to get people back on the right path. So, say Muslims, this accounts for the many universal morals in the world's religions such as forbidding murder and such. They also say this is why Judaism and Christianity are so similar and close to Islam because they were the last to have prophets before Muhammad was sent. God told Muhammad he would be the last and that his message would not be corrupted to the point that it would be unrecognizeable and forgotten with regards to the original teaching, as Christianity and Judaism have become (Islam's opinion not mine) such corruptions of Islam they are considered different religions.

Also, Islam is one of the few religions that believes that people who do not follow religion or consider themselves as Muslims will go to heaven. In Islam the only requirement to get into heaven is to believe in one god alone and not commit "shirq" or association. Shirq is believing that god has a child/children, is more than one form (i.e. coming to earth as a man), or polytheism. Of course Islam also does believe in purgatory so if you do believe first part of Islam's faith statement, "There is no god but God..." you will get to heaven. If you do not believe, or follow the second part of the Muslim faith statement,"...and Muhammad is his prophet," then you are going to spend some time in torment before you get to heaven. Heaven is barred to those who commit shirq (i.e. modern day Christians are technically polytheists to Muslim jurisprudence because of the trinity, a triune god and that god has children or was himself his own son).

Miguel · 11-30-2006, 09:51 AM

In Inglish pleeze mister.

KP Ling · 11-30-2006, 10:08 AM

I just asked Sammi, "Min matha balad int?"-What country are you from? (I am just guessing Palestine or Jordan since Sammi is a very common name for men in those areas.)

"Ana akhdan yikallim shwayyit al-arabiy." I also speak a little Arabic.

I was in the Army and my family worked for an oil company in the middle east when I was young so I studied Arabic for a few years.

sammi · 11-30-2006, 10:08 AM

min libnan

KP Ling is very close... The outlying message of all the prophets was to teach there people that god is one, and they tought them how to worship god the way he wants them to worship Him. The message of Islam was here since the beginning yes but not exactly as the prophet mohammad revealed it. Example: Moses revealed the torah to his people, he did not have the quraan. Jesus had the gospel he did not have the quran. Abraham had his scrolls, but he didnt have the quraan. However the message they preached which was the same with all the prophets was monotheism , and this is what was curropted over time. And this is why god has to send prophets to remind the people. The torah today is not the same as moses had in his hand. and the same goes for jesus, we dont have what he held in his hand and preached with, what we have are reminants of both. So the he people followed the messenger that was sent them, doesot mean they were tought the same as the prophet mohammad tough his followers. The message was the same.. God is One. But the scrptures were different for different nations.

sammi · 11-30-2006, 10:15 AM

yes someone can utter that he belives in one god, but that doesnt mean automatic heaven. if he sins then he has to be punished if he didnt repent in this life. But in the end god choses who he wants to forgive since he is the most mercifull. Some muslims will go to hell yes, eventually they will all go to heaven based on them belived that god is 1 and they didnt commit shirk (ascribing partners to god)

11-30-2006, 05:51 AM	#22
sammi XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 298	ibrahim (abraham) "And who turns away from the religion of Abraham (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) except him who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous. When his Lord said to him: "Submit (i.e. be a Muslim)!" He said: "I have submitted myself (as a Muslim) to the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists)." And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Abraham upon his sons and by Jacob, (saying). "O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam (as Muslims Islamic Monotheism)." Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob? When he said unto his sons: ‘What will you worship after me?’ They said. ‘We shall worship you Ilah (God - Allah) the Ilah (God) of your fathers, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, One Ilah (God), and to Him we submit (in Islam)." That was a nation who has passed away. They shall receive the reward of what they earned and you of what you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do. And they say: "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided." Say (to them, O Muhammad): "Nay, (we follow) only the religion of Abraham, Hanifan [Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah (Alone)] and he was not of Al-Mushrikeen (those who worshiped others along with Allah.)" Say (O Muslims), 'We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and to Al-Asbat (the twelve sons of Jacob), and that which has been given to Moses and Jesus, and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam).’ So if they believe in the like of that which you believe, then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allah will suffice you against them. And he is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. [Our Sibghah (religion) is] the Sibghah (religion) of Allah (Islam) and which Sibghah (religion) can be better than Allah’s. And we are His worshipers. Say (O Muhammad, to the Jews and Christians). "Dispute you with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? And we are to be rewarded for our deeds and you for your deeds. And we are sincere to Him in worship and obedience (i.e. we worship Him Alone and none else, and we obey His Orders)." Or say you that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and Al-Asbat (the twelve sons of Jacob) were Jews or Christians? Say: "Do you know better or does Allah (know better ... that they all were Muslims)? And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony [i.e. to believe in Prophet Muhammad when he comes, written in their books] he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do." (Surah 2: 130-140) abraham did not worship god "just as he saw fit". He recieved guidace from his lord and he did recieve scripture from his lord. We call them the scrolls of abraham. You need to learn about the story of abraham in islaam. take a seat before you take a stand. I will give you a link to where you can read this story... http://www.bysiness.co.uk/excerpts/excerpabrahamikathir.htm i am unaware of the authenticity of the other info on that site, so just go to the story of abraham which i know is authentic.

11-30-2006, 09:44 AM	#26
KP Ling XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 480	Sammi, min matha balad int? ana akhdan yikallim shwayyit al-arabiy. Anyway, I am not Muslim but having spent much time with them and studied the religion I have some insight. I do not think sammi has come right out and said it but he hinted around at it with the discussion of muslim=submitter. Sammi correct me if I'm wrong but it is held in Islam that there is only one true religion, Islam itself. Adam is considered the first Muslim and first prophet of Islam and that all prophets from him to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, David, Moses, Jesus, others that are not known to Jews or Christians and Muhammad have all taught one religion...Islam. Muslims, as we know them today, believe that all throughout history prophets have taught their people Islam but it invariably becomes corrupted and so God has to send more prophets to get people back on the right path. So, say Muslims, this accounts for the many universal morals in the world's religions such as forbidding murder and such. They also say this is why Judaism and Christianity are so similar and close to Islam because they were the last to have prophets before Muhammad was sent. God told Muhammad he would be the last and that his message would not be corrupted to the point that it would be unrecognizeable and forgotten with regards to the original teaching, as Christianity and Judaism have become (Islam's opinion not mine) such corruptions of Islam they are considered different religions. Also, Islam is one of the few religions that believes that people who do not follow religion or consider themselves as Muslims will go to heaven. In Islam the only requirement to get into heaven is to believe in one god alone and not commit "shirq" or association. Shirq is believing that god has a child/children, is more than one form (i.e. coming to earth as a man), or polytheism. Of course Islam also does believe in purgatory so if you do believe first part of Islam's faith statement, "There is no god but God..." you will get to heaven. If you do not believe, or follow the second part of the Muslim faith statement,"...and Muhammad is his prophet," then you are going to spend some time in torment before you get to heaven. Heaven is barred to those who commit shirq (i.e. modern day Christians are technically polytheists to Muslim jurisprudence because of the trinity, a triune god and that god has children or was himself his own son). __________________ "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - James Madison Last edited by KP Ling : 11-30-2006 at 10:01 AM.

11-30-2006, 09:51 AM	#27
Miguel XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 1,869	In Inglish pleeze mister. __________________ Miguel Enjoying my XD .45ACP Tactical. need to break in my 870, and my wife's XDSC9. I carry my XD45 ACP Tactical, in a SuperTuck from CB. Very comfortable, easy to hide, easy to draw, and easy to reholster. Looking for an HDR*, either an AR-180B, or Kel-Tec FBR. HDR, Homeland Defense Rifle

11-30-2006, 10:08 AM	#28
KP Ling XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 480	I just asked Sammi, "Min matha balad int?"-What country are you from? (I am just guessing Palestine or Jordan since Sammi is a very common name for men in those areas.) "Ana akhdan yikallim shwayyit al-arabiy." I also speak a little Arabic. I was in the Army and my family worked for an oil company in the middle east when I was young so I studied Arabic for a few years. __________________ "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - James Madison

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11-30-2006, 05:39 AM	#21
sammi XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 298	to clarify, a muslim is an english word which means submitter in arabic. Islaam is an english word which means submission in arabic. In that sence every prophet submitted to god. Every prophet was a submitter (muslim). what some muslim may say is the "3 abrahamic religions/roots" and this is a false concept for a muslim to belive in. As a muslim we say that abraham was not a jew, not a christian. Yes, one of his sons is a stem for the arabs and the other for the jews and these are races, not religion. Those who followed the scripture given to moses were submitters (muslims) those who accepted jesus when he came to them, were all submitters (muslims). There is a diffrence between their race and religion. Just like Jesus (peace be upon him) he was born as a jew, he spoke hebrew, he followed the scripture of moses, he was brought from he jews TO the jews to bring them to the correct path that moses was on. As he said himself.. "i have not come but unto the lost sheep of israel" which were the jews. So jesus was a submitter (muslim) that was his religion. Did he not submit himself to the comands of god?

11-30-2006, 06:01 AM	#23
sammi XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 298	Just as a person can become a muslim there are certain things which can take the person out of the fold of islaam. You like to call this "excomunicated" we call it takfeer. For example, as a muslim we are required to belive in the previouse scrptures that god sent down to mankind. If a muslim now says that since he doesnt like what the jews are doing in the midle east and then says "i am not going to belive the scripture of moses" this can take a muslim out of the fold of islam and that statement of his/her would make him a disbliever. There are other things which can take someone out of the fold of islam such as not wanting to belive in angles which is a pillar of faith, or believing that he doesnt need to pray the obligatory 5 prayer that every muslim must do. However if a muslim sins, for example fornicates or drinks wine.. beer ect... then this does not take him out of the fold of islaam. These are sins and he is subjected to repentance. Just because sombody is a muslim does not mean he gets a free ticket to heaven. Allah says the belivers will go to heaven. Every believer is a muslim but not every muslim is a beliver. There will be muslims who will be punished in hell for sins which they have commted in this life, if they havnt repented in this life. But sooner or later after their due punishment in hell all muslims wil be removed from it. I hope this clarifies issue about excommnication in islaam

11-30-2006, 09:39 AM	#25
sammi XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 298	ok were getting somewhere, but that polish example is crazy. Abaraham and all the prophets were submitters, but they did not follow the laws that the propet mohammad (peace be upon him) brought as they lived beore his time. Had they come after him they would be following his laws. Moses had his laws to convey to his people and thus the people had to follow his message to attain salvation. The laws change over time to suit the needs of the people at that time in their society... HOWEVER the outlying message of all the prophets was the SAME. They preached monotheism that is to SHUN false dieties and to worship god alone. THis is what the prophets and messengers came here to do..to deliver guidance from the creator to the creation and tell them that god is 1. None of us will disagree to that. They all sumitted themselves in that sence to obey god and follow his commandments and do their job as role models for their people. This doesnt mean they are muslims in the sence they follow the prophet mohammad (peace be upon him). If the jews followed the teachigns that moses (peace be upon him) brought to them without altering the mesage they are the ones that attained salvation. "Surely, We sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light; by its laws the Jews have been judged by the prophets who surrendered themselves to Allah, the rabbis and the doctors of law, because they were entrusted the protection of Allah's book and were witnesses thereto" (5:44). WHen jesus (peace be upon him) came to the jews, who ever of the jews found the prophecies of jesus (peace be upon him) and accepted his message and followed his guidance they are the ones that attained salvation. "And we gave him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition to the God-fearing" (5:46); "And to make lawful to you certain things that, before, were forbidden to you" (3:50). But other jews dienied him and hid the prophcies about him and became arrogant.these are the ones that arent real submitters (muslims). "So woe to those who write the Book with their hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' that they may sell it for a little price. So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for their earnings" (2:79); Now it is the same when the last prophet came mohammad (peace be upon him) there are prophecies in your books of him and he is claiming to come from the same source that all the prophets came from. That same line of saying that god is one and shunning away all false dieties. Whoever accepts him and follows his guidance will attain salvation, they are the real submitters (muslims) or belivers. The ones that deny him will be delt by god in the next life. If a person is a muslim he MUST belive in the previuose messengers including jesus and moses all the way to adam, they must accept the scriptures they came with. Say [O you who believe!]: "We believe in Allah, in that which has been revealed to us; in that which was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendents (Jacob's sons); in that which was given to Moses and Jesus; and in that which was given to the Prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him we are Muslimun (Muslims)" (2.136). but just as the outling message is the same the people in this nation must follow the guidance of the last prophet and not the guidance of prophets that came 2000 years ago. Just like jews were requiered to follow jesus when jesus came to them. "People of the Book! Our Messenger has come to you, making clear to you many things you have been concealing of the Book and forgiving you of much. A light has come to you from Allah and a glorious Book, with which He will guide whoever follows His pleasure in the way of peace, and brings them forth from darkness into the light by His will" (5:15-16). i hope this is clear now

11-30-2006, 10:15 AM	#30
sammi XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 298	yes someone can utter that he belives in one god, but that doesnt mean automatic heaven. if he sins then he has to be punished if he didnt repent in this life. But in the end god choses who he wants to forgive since he is the most mercifull. Some muslims will go to hell yes, eventually they will all go to heaven based on them belived that god is 1 and they didnt commit shirk (ascribing partners to god)