House PASSES Bush's Detainee Bill

[NewXD40fun]

I would like to personally thank the majority of Americans who helped pass this Bill in the House. Way to go




House passes Bush's detainee bill
By UPI Staff
United Press International
September 28, 2006

WASHINGTON (UPI) -- The U.S. House of Representatives has backed U.S. President George Bush's bill on rights of terror suspects and questioning techniques by a 253-168 vote.

The bill upholds the administration's earlier position of denying detainees access to courts to challenge their detention but placed more restrictions on interrogation techniques by the military and the CIA, The Washington Post said.

Bush issued a statement thanking the House and calling the existing system "one of our most effective tools in the war on terror."

The administration's existing system was struck down by the Supreme Court in June, as it ruled some Geneva Conventions rights were being denied.

Bush said he hoped the Senate would pass the bill before Congress recesses on the weekend.

The bill would pave the way for trials of more than 20 suspected terrorists, including alleged Sept. 11, 2001, planner Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who is being held at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, The Los Angeles Times said.




Hopefully the Senate will follow through before the Democrats start releasing terrorist prisoners.....


Tom

[DoctorDawg]

Cool...I was never a big fan of Article 1 Section 9 of that pesky ole Constitution. And anyways, torture is soooo cool. It's a proud day in the House.

[hacker15]

Originally Posted by DoctorDawg

Cool...I was never a big fan of Article 1 Section 9 of that pesky ole Constitution. And anyways, torture is soooo cool. It's a proud day in the House.

Doc, you talk as though the thumbscrews and the rack were being used on these people. I don't understand this fixiation with the word "torture". And, since when did the US Constitution cover foreign nationals? Must have missed that part. H**l, we can't get the liberals to recognize basic civil rights for US citizens (try the 2nd Amendment on for size). I guess the ACLU is very selective in which rights they chose to go to court over.

Based on the stuff I've read and heard (even from the less than unbias newspapers and TV "talking heads"), it sure doesn't sound like anything that wasn't done to most of us in basic training while we were in the military. Does that mean we were tortured? I don't think so, but maybe I'm just brainwashed by all the hardships they put me through.

[beardman2]

Could you explain a little more what you mean? I'm a newbie to all this. It was my understanding the Supreme Court shot down the no trial thing based on that it wasn't approved by congress not because of Habeas Corpus but I haven't read it for myself.


For anyone wanting to read more about what he's talking about:


http://www.archives.gov/national-arc...ranscript.html

Originally Posted by United States Constitution Article I Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person. The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another; nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus

Originally Posted by Wikipedia.org

Latin for "you [should] have the body", in common law countries, habeas corpus is the name of a legal instrument or writ by means of which detainees can seek release from unlawful imprisonment. A writ of habeas corpus is a court order addressed to a prison official (or other custodian) ordering that a detainee be brought to the court so it can be determined whether or not that person is imprisoned lawfully and whether or not he or she should be released from custody. The writ of habeas corpus in common law countries is an important instrument for the safeguarding of individual freedom against arbitrary state action.

[KP Ling]

It means that habeas corpus can not be suspended unless we are in a declared state of war or some domestic emergency such as civil war, internal attack, military coup. That is all about to change. The Constitution is worthless today. It is, to politicians, nothing more than a pesky obstacle to be gone around than a living, brilliant contract between the rulers and the ruled.

[DoctorDawg]

Originally Posted by hacker15

Doc, you talk as though the thumbscrews and the rack were being used on these people. I don't understand this fixiation with the word "torture". And, since when did the US Constitution cover foreign nationals?

Hacker, I hear what yer saying, and I genuinely do respect the apparent fact that you are a thoughtful person who sincerely feels this is all being blown out of proportion...but the basic problem I have is that we have no idea what's being done, or to whom. Maybe it is thumbscrews and the rack. Without the rule of law, checks and balances, and oversight, we simply have no idea. I realize a lot of folks think Bush is an OK guy, or even a great guy, and wouldn't let it go over the top. But a lot of other folks, myself included, deeply distrust the guy and his judgement, and so we don't have this source of comfort available to us. This is...or was...a nation devoted to the Rule of Law, rather than the rule of "Trust me, I know what I'm doing," which is one of the (many) things I so deeply love about my country.

As to your question of "since when did the US Constitution cover foreign nationals?", it is, I think, vitally important to bear in mind that it is currently the case...and would remain the case under the House bill...that the President has the discretion to declare anyone...US citizen or non-citizen...an 'enemy combatant' and ship 'em off to Gitmo (or some mysterious CIA prison who knows where) without judicial oversight...without habeus corpus...there to do to them whatever he feels like, including (my personal favorite) "simulated drowning" (I'm a little fuzzy on what part of sticking someone's head under water so he can't breathe is 'simulated'). I have no reason to root for Jose Padilla, but it concerns me that he's a US citizen and he was 'disappeared' without judicial oversight until...ooopsie!...we tossed him back into the legal system for no reason that any of us will ever know. I have no reason to root for anybody detained at Gitmo, but it concerns me that...ooopsie!...we've ended up releasing hundreds of 'em because they didn't actually belong there. 'Ooopsie' ain't good enough when it comes to taking away people's essential freedoms and torturing them. I want something more than just 'ooopsie'...I want the legal system our founders built this country upon, at the price of their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honors.

I love my country. My family has fought and sacrificed to defend it for generations. And it breaks my heart to see it suddenly turn into a place where we pass laws permitting the president to 'disappear' and torture anybody he damn well wants to. I don't know what that is, but I know it's not the America I love. It breaks my heart to see the islamofascists winning by the cleverest of all means...by dragging us down to their own level of animal barbarism.

The right of habeus corpus has frequently been argued to be the most fundamental of all rights assured us by the Constitution...because if the government can 'disappear' you, then you have no other rights, whatsoever...not the Second Amendment, not nothin'. Conservatives are precisely the folks who should be screamin their heads off about this, and yet I can count on the fingers of one hand the number who are. WTF?????

Please refer to the Ben Franklin quote in my sig. I think this is one of the wisest things any American has ever said. And it is shocking to me how frighteningly relevant it is to America today. I want us to deserve both safety and liberty. Lately, I'm not entirely sure we do.

[jeff221]

Remember when our soldiers pictures were shown on the Television in Iraq and the government freaked out because it was against the geneva convention?


I hope all you who supported this bill know that this will allow other countries to torture our soldiers if they get caught, because that countried decided our soldiers didn't qualify as someone who deserves humane treatment....

[jeff221]

Originally Posted by DoctorDawg

Hacker, I hear what yer saying, and I genuinely do respect the apparent fact that you are a thoughtful person who sincerely feels this is all being blown out of proportion...but the basic problem I have is that we have no idea what's being done, or to whom. Maybe it is thumbscrews and the rack. Without the rule of law, checks and balances, and oversight, we simply have no idea. I realize a lot of folks think Bush is an OK guy, or even a great guy, and wouldn't let it go over the top. But a lot of other folks, myself included, deeply distrust the guy and his judgement, and so we don't have this source of comfort available to us. This is...or was...a nation devoted to the Rule of Law, rather than the rule of "Trust me, I know what I'm doing," which is one of the (many) things I so deeply love about my country.

As to your question of "since when did the US Constitution cover foreign nationals?", it is, I think, vitally important to bear in mind that it is currently the case...and would remain the case under the House bill...that the President has the discretion to declare anyone...US citizen or non-citizen...an 'enemy combatant' and ship 'em off to Gitmo (or some mysterious CIA prison who knows where) without judicial oversight...without habeus corpus...there to do to them whatever he feels like, including (my personal favorite) "simulated drowning" (I'm a little fuzzy on what part of sticking someone's head under water so he can't breathe is 'simulated'). I have no reason to root for Jose Padilla, but it concerns me that he's a US citizen and he was 'disappeared' without judicial oversight until...ooopsie!...we tossed him back into the legal system for no reason that any of us will ever know. I have no reason to root for anybody detained at Gitmo, but it concerns me that...ooopsie!...we've ended up releasing hundreds of 'em because they didn't actually belong there. 'Ooopsie' ain't good enough when it comes to taking away people's essential freedoms and torturing them. I want something more than just 'ooopsie'...I want the legal system our founders built this country upon.

I love my country. My family has fought and sacrificed to defend it for generations. And it breaks my heart to see it suddenly turn into a place where we pass laws permitting the president to 'disappear' and torture anybody he damn well wants to. I don't know what that is, but I know it's not the America I love. It breaks my heart to see the islamofascists winning by the cleverest of all means...by dragging us down to their own level of animal barbarism.

Please refer to the Ben Franklin quote in my sig. I think this is one of the wisest things any American has ever said. And it is shocking to me how frighteningly relevant it is to America today. I want us to deserve both safety and liberty. Lately, I'm not entirely sure we do.

You don't agree with the president... You hate america & the troops and give aid and comfort to the terrorists! </sarcasim off>

[beardman2]

I love it when we get past the political crap and really discuss the meat of the issues.

I agree with all that. We need to protect our founding documents. Without them we have nothing, IMHO. So I think we can all agree that we need a way to talk to these folks and get the info while protecting everything we hold dear. IMO that even includes making them a little uncomfy on occasion. However, I'd rather win then over with how good we are rather than how bad we can be.

So what exactly is wrong with this bill. Lets keep it to facts not part politics here.

For the life of me I can't find it on the house.gov site.

[LorDiego01]

This is horrible. I cannot believe that the US now supports AND uses torture on people.