What was the Pope thinking?

[Brickboy240]

I could not believe he said that, either. After the uproar over the cartoons out of Denmark, the type of reaction we're seeing had to be expected...so why say these things?

But hey, wasn't the Pope one of the Hitler Youth? He's probably not scared by the Islamo-fascists...surely he has seen much more dangerous fanatics than these guys.

- Brickboy240

[boater1217]

Soooooo, the idea is not to say anything that will get them stirred up?

[hacker15]

Originally Posted by Delija

OK, what seems weird to me is that even though whatever the Pope had quoted from whenever.....could have been the time of the Crusades for all I know, the point seems to me to be that we've seen it takes virtually nothing to set off the Islamic world with indignation.

I had mentioned that cartoon that was published in Denmark (I think it was Denmark) that created a worldwide fuss. Obviously this isn't like telling Polish jokes. The Muslim world seems to have a problem with any kind of criticism or characterization. We know this. The whole world knows this. (Seems like the kind of knee-jerk reaction we'd expect from XDFunny if he heard something critical of president Bush. LOL).

Is their behavior over the top? Obviously it is by our standards (a big part of our problem seems to be that we expect "our standards" to apply to different cultures).

So whatever their motivation....Jihad, indignation, intolerance, feeling oppression, whatever it is that sets them off, we know it isn't much.

Should we be "walking on eggshells" all the time to appease the Muslim world? Obviously the whole world can't conform to the wishes of the radical Islamic extremists. If we do, then they will have won a big part of our current "War on terror".

But the truth is, we just don't want to make things worse. We know they'll burn Christian churches. We've seen this all before. We've seen them destroy ancient and exquisite Buddhist shrines and statues that had stood for a thousand years. Their lack of having civilized boundaries is profound.

Hopefully we (the Western world) will prevail, or at least find a way to get Islam to conform to a civilized set of values. But until then, why provoke them? There is no upside when dealing with fanaticism. And that is what we see and have been seeing out of the world of Islam for a long time...and it seems to be getting worse.

We've all heard the expression "enough to piss off the Pope". Catholics don't get offended....I doubt even the Pope would be offended. But say something similar about an Ayatollah, and heads literally roll. Why poke a hornets nest?

The Pope should have known better (it seems to me). I highly doubt that the Pope's speech was a calculated effort to piss of the Muslim world. Especially now that we are seeing strong apologies coming out of the Vatican.

So I guess I, for one, am just stuck back on the first entry in this thread....

"What was the Pope thinking?"



Pax pacis,
D.

PS: I see that while I was writing this post, "Ed 2001 SS" had made essentially the same points. So if two regular non-political, non religious leaders see how obvious this situation is, how is it possible that the Pope could have made such a simple error of judgement??

The quote was from a dialogue between a Byzantine Roman Emperor and a Persian delegate to his court in the mid 14th century.

Your point concerning the “knee jerk” reaction and hypersensitivity of the Muslim nations and followers of Muhammad is well taken, but misdirected. If these nations choose to play on the world stage, and interact with other nations, it behooves them to influence world opinion by some other means than the burning, in effigy, a world religious leader for what they consider an “offensive” comment. Not everything said about them will be complimentary or neutral, unless they get comments only from individuals who are PC to the core (i.e., your average liberal New Yorker).

By the same token, it behooves these nations to control their citizens to ensure peaceful demonstrations. The latest threats and invitations to burn churches, kill Christians, bomb western cities is not exactly the kind of dialogue anyone needs at this juncture in history. When these statements come from the mouths of Islamic religious leaders, it gives us all cause to wonder what their religion is really based on.

[Wu Wei]

I used to like Islam. From what I knew of Mohammed's life he sounded like a progressive. I thought Islam was the "best" of the "God" Religions. The teaching sounds nice until you get around to how it is actually practiced in the world today. Everytime something like this comes out the Muslims just make more enemies. They make George Bush look like a PR genius, Rico-Suave! The Pope was a bit naive to discuss an academic topic that could be misconstrued by the Muslim hot-heads, but really, should we all have to walk on eggshells not to incite the wrath of Islam?

Remember all the cartoons about "Darth Vader" the new Pope? Hell, in my crowd the Pope is often referred to as "That silly man in the funny hat". Does he care? No. The difference makes me respect the Pope, and I am VERY critical of Christianity, especially Catholicism and the Born-Againers.

Muslims need to either have a dialogue within their faith to clean it up or accept that they will be wiped out all because of the elite whackos who grab the headlines. I think the old cliche' is "Clean up your house or we will."
Islam has proven itself to be a faith with a serious illness if not a root hatred for others. My patience has run out. Islam is a case study in the dangers of religion gone bad. I used to think we could sort out the good from the bad, but if they insist on supporting each other so be it. Think of the Lebanese sobbing over their dead children in one breath and admitting they supported Hamas in the next. "If you support terrorism, don't whine when your children die." I really think logic is alien to a decent-sized percentage of Muslims. Sad, really sad.

[Neomet]

Well said Wu Wei, as usual.

The inability to even be remotely accurate about history just proves their blind zealotry. I am perfectly willing to understand that, unlike other religious Prophets and leaders, Mohamed was a secular leader as well, attempting to expand and defend his empire. There really are no parallels with Christ, Buddha, Krishna, whoever in that regard. Even given that, and that killing others is usually a job requirement for heads of state you just cannot ignore his actions in killing those that refused to convert after being captured (sound familiar?), or that he chose an imperialistic rule. Perhaps we should ignore Kaled "the sword of God"? The list goes on.

Oh, and I really like the way that you show your religion is not violence-laden is to burn another religious leader in effigy after he quotes someone else. Bright. Reeeeaalllly bright.

[gsh341]

From what I have seen in my travels though out Iraq and Kuwait, Islam is the one and only thing that most middle-eastern people have. The poor people in that society are dominated by Islam to the exclusion of all else. I have seen people who have given all they have to their religion and live in a mud hut next to the splendor of a mosque and think nothing is wrong with it.

We all know that the Saudi royal family are pretty loose with their religion. When they leave Saudi Arabia they are known to eat, drink, and chase Mary all over the place. However, in Saudi Arabia they are always the most pious of Muslims. Why? Because the average worker would not stand for a royal family to be otherwise. If the King of Saudi Arabia were to be seen eating pork chops and chasing it down with wine in a public place, the local imams and mullahs would decree that the royal family was defiling Islam and should be deposed. Then the people would go nuts and kill the King.

In Iraq, what Muqtada Al Sadr says should be done, is done. No questions asked. They do it because he says Islam decrees it. It is a religious duty to do it. It is in the Koran! Unfortunately, illiteracy is rampant in the middle east so they can't even read the Koran, and the people have been brainwashed into believing only the religious leaders can accurately interpret the Koran, so they never question what they are told.

The religious leaders, however, have read the Koran. They know what is in it and what isn't. Yet they constantly misinterpret the Koran on purpose. They do this because they control the masses and that control makes them more powerful than kings. Despite the best efforts of moderate, intelligent, respectful, and tolerant Muslims, the religious leaders in the middle east have made Islam into a cult.

And the people in the cult have no idea they have been brainwashed.

[chupacabrachus]

I think the Pope crossed the line with this one. He should have known that the extremist muslim community is a bunch of cry-baby bitches who can't take anything that anyone says.

[jednp]

My guess was the pope was just thinking what the truth is. Murders, fires, violent protests happening in the streets. Muslim leaders calling for more protests and saying they will not stop until their war against christianity is won. He's just saying what the truth is. Something leaders of the free world seem to be too scared to do.

I'm sorry, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck... my guess is it's probably a duck. You want me to see you as a non violent religion, then don't burn things, throw rocks, chant violently in the streets, call for the destruction of other countries and religions, and then I may see you as peaceful. The stupidest little things get them all worked up and wanting to kill all the infidels. You can say whatever you want about my religion, or my views. guess what I'll do? I'll ignore you, and just laugh it off.

guess the proper response according to muslims, is if someone mocks my religion, I need to go kill a muslim cleric, and burn down a mosque, right? But, seeing how I am truly a peaceful person, I won't do that. Unlike them, they are "peaceful", except when they are violent.

[thomye]

the funny part is, how can they be offended and yet react exactly as the image of what offended them. if someone called you violent, you don't get offended and then react with violence. it only proves the point.

Although i don't think it was the popes place even to quote someone from the 14th centry, I'm almost glad he said it. it only reinforces what's true and they prove it every day in their actions. by they i mean the extremists.

For those of you who don't know, there are 1.4 billion muslims in the world. even if 1 percent were extremists, and i certainly think that's a conservative number, that equals 14 million poeple. that's a lot of people that is waging jihad on us.

my question is, where's the other 99% who claim that islam is a peaceful religion. Why are they not speaking out in outrage of those who are making their religion look so bad and contridicting their teachings. I have serveral muslim friends and although they do a lot and participate in inter religious events to show their willingness to live in peace, they do nothing to speak out against the so called 1%. the 14 million who would rather take the path of violence.

i hate writing about this position as people think i'm some sort of racist. but really, i'm not. I do have serveral friends that are muslim and becuase of these political troubling times, i have found a great interest about learning Mohameds teaching as well as refreshing my chirstian background. I'm finding so many of the same versus in both books that its amazing to me that we are seperated by a line as thick as the hair on our heads and yet we can't just be.

it will only be a matter of time, i will not loose faith as i believe that the 99% will speak up and their voices will be so loud that the 1% will no longer be heard. I will not loose faith.

[cucamelsmd15]

Originally Posted by gsh341

And the people in the cult have no idea they have been brainwashed.

Why does this sound like politics in general?