Marines to recall troops to active duty - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

**Frenchy** · 08-22-2006, 08:54 PM

When is this stupidity going to end. Bush is on a mindless vindetta with this lost cause of a war.

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Marines to recall troops to active duty
By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer 34 minutes ago

The Marine Corps will soon begin ordering thousands of its troops back to active duty because of a shortage of volunteers for Iraq and Afghanistan — the first involuntary recall since the early days of the war.
Up to 2,500 Marines will be brought back at a time, and there is no cap on the total number who may be forced back into service as the military helps fight the war on terror. The call-ups will begin in the next several months.
The number of troops in Iraq has climbed back to 138,000 — the prevailing number for much of last year. Troop levels had been declining this year, to a low of about 127,000, amid growing calls from Congress and the public for a phased withdrawal. Escalating violence in Baghdad has led military leaders to increase the U.S. presence there.
This is the first time the Marines have had to use the involuntary recall since the beginning of the Iraq combat. The Army, meanwhile, has issued orders recalling about 10,000 soldiers so far, but many of those may be granted exemptions.
Marine Col. Guy A. Stratton, head of the manpower mobilization section, estimated that there is a current shortfall of about 1,200 Marines needed to fill positions in upcoming deployments.
Some of the military needs, he said, include engineers, intelligence, military police and communications.
As of Tuesday, nearly 22,000 of the 138,000 troops in Iraq were Marines.
The call-up will affect Marines in the Individual Ready Reserve, a segment of the reserves that consists mainly of those who have left active duty but still have time remaining on their eight-year military obligations.
Generally, Marines enlist for four years, then serve the other four years either in the regular Reserves, where they are paid and train periodically, or in the Individual Ready Reserve. Marines in the IRR are obligated to report only one day a year but can be involuntarily recalled to active duty.
To date, about 5,000 Army IRR soldiers have mobilized, and about 2,200 of those are currently serving, according to Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty, an Army spokesman. Of those 2,200, about 16 percent are volunteers, he said. A typical Army enlistment obligation is also for eight years.
According to Stratton, there are about 59,000 Marines in the IRR, but the Corps has decided to exempt from the call-up those who are either in their first year or last year of the reserve status. As a result, the pool of available Marines is about 35,000.
The deployments can last up to two years, but on average would be 12 to 18 months, Stratton said. Each Marine who is being recalled will get five months to prepare before having to report.
President Bush authorized the recall on July 26. It is the first such recall since early 2003, when about 2,000 Marines were involuntarily activated for the initial ground war in Iraq.
"Since this is going to be a long war," said Stratton, "we thought it was judicious and prudent at this time to be able to use a relatively small portion of those Marines to help us augment our units."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/...arines_call_up

Son of Norway · 08-23-2006, 08:32 AM

And when this does not produce the number of troops needed...the draft is next.

rimfire · 08-23-2006, 09:43 AM

I cant think this is good.

These guys served their time and did their tour - or tours. They didn't want to re-enlist, probably have new jobs, and now your calling them back. That might get your more troops but how about their moral (I suspect they get no bonus either). They brag of the "all volunteer" armed forces then pull this crap.

I've never been in the military myself and don't really know anyone first person that has so I don't presume to know much about it so I am asking -

Before this conflict how many soldiers REALLY knew they had an extra four (??) year obligation? Was this explained by recruiters or when you were discharged? If it is clearly explained when signing then I would lean towards this being OK - you signed up for it etc. But if this is buried in 2pt font on some enlistment form, then this is truly unfair.

jeff221 · 08-23-2006, 10:10 AM

I am a gun owning, concealed weapon carrying, god fearing liberial... I'm a rarity on gun forums... That being said...

This war will never end, the basis of the war is flawed...

Terrorism is a tactic, not a person or army.. Terrorism is like Hiding, or Running, or jumping, it's a description word for an activity... You cannot have a "war on hideing" or a "war on jumping" because there is no way of destroying "terrorism" because it will ALWAYS exsist...

When the brits came to the united states, stood in their shooting lines during wars and we (*the US) hide in the tree's and waged war in a different fashion, we could have been called terrorists back then.

There is ONE simple fact that CANNOT be argued with... Killing is bad... Wether you are dropping bombs to find terrorists, flying planes into buildings, gasing insurgance that are going to overthrow you country, Killing & War should be the LAST option..

There is something I do not understand... We lost 3,000 or more of our brothers & sisters in the trade towers.. Everyone felt horrible about these lives being lost... So, what does our president do in response? He wages war in Iraq (which, if you didn't realize, had nothing to do with 9-11) which kills over 100,000 of the Iraqi's brothers and sisters (not terrorists, just regular people like you and me trying to live there life as best they know how).... I can't imagine why they aren't happy we are there...

**Frenchy** · 08-23-2006, 10:14 AM

Granted...The IRR signed a contract and knows that they can be called back up at any time, but as far as I'm concerned...this is nothing more than a "back door" draft.
Bush isn't listening to anyone (other than God), and he's willing to throw away good men for his avarice. How many more will die for a country that doesn’t want us there, just to justify his place in history?
I can’t believe that I voted for this asshole…TWICE…

KP Ling · 08-23-2006, 11:42 AM

Being a veteran I'll say that I knew going in about the 8 year commitment. This may depend on your recruiter and how honest/hard up to make quota he or she is. All persons enlisting (commissioning for officers lasts 20 years) are bound to render 8 years of service. In the Army you can do as little as two active up to six, or do some other amoutn in the reserves. I have heard that the minimum active in the Marines is 4 years but I'm not positive.

Anyway, when you sign up you know that you owe eight years. Using me as an example: I signed up for 6 years active. When that 6 was up I could have either extended (which I did), re-enlisted (these start out at a minimum of 4 years in the Army so I just extended one year at a time until I hit eight years), gone into the ready reserves (weekend a month, 2 weeks a summer), or the last option the IRR. Others I knew did two years active and then 6 in the ready reserves. Some just do 4 active and 4 IRR. IRR status only becomes a big deal in war when recruitment slips. It also is easier/cheaper to recall someone who has all the training and experience rather than get someone green off the streets

IRR stands for individual ready reserve and, in peacetime, is basically nothing more than you being contacted by a recruiter every six months to make sure you are still at the same address and phone number for ease of contact in case they have to call you up. Usually they just call and hassle you to re-enlist or join the Ready Reserves. While in IRR the military can legally make you show up once every six months to take a physical to make sure you are still deployable/fit to serve or do rifle qualifications, etc.. They could also make you report in person to a recruiting office so the recruiter can update your info and more easily hassle you about re-enlisting. They do not do this because then they have to pay you as if you showed up to a drill like the ready reserves do. With a war on it is just easier to put you back in uniform on active duty so they have mass call-ups, keep those still fit or in critical skills and let the rest go.

I never had to do IRR, as I said I just extended until my 8 total years were up and then they had no claim on me. It is pretty easy to get out of though, get fat or do drugs and they will send you home with your honorable still intact. They are still kicking out gay people who actually fight tooth and nail to stay in so you could "come out of the closet" as many male troops do right before a war or long deployment. Women go the pregnant route when they want to get out of overseas/combat tours. Also, I know guys who did tours in Iraq and did not want to leave college after they started when they came back but got called-up since they were still on IRR. They simply got sympathetic civilian doctors to do their health questionnaire and were never contacted again by the military. By the way there is no such thing as college deferrment for people in IRR. They can be called-up no matter what their job or educational situation is. They are also instituting, at least in the army, a new, crude form of battlefield commission. If you have an associate's degree or are at least halfway to a bacclaureate then you can become an officer but you can not rise above the rank of captain until you get a baccalaureate.

I am on the fence though about this IRR issue. These people signed a contract and should live up to it, they have a legal obligation. However, they are also not volunteers since they would have gone down to the recruiter's office while still on IRR had they felt a moral obligation to serve. Either way, as Son of Norway said, the only thing left if you continue the war is a draft.

Hope this sheds some light on the IRR process.

**Frenchy** · 08-23-2006, 11:54 AM

Good explanatory post, KP...Thanks.

jkswiss · 08-23-2006, 12:13 PM

When I signed the dotted line at 17, I was told it was an eight year obligation. I had six active, and two in the IRR. I was basically told that almost no one gets called up for their extra years and that I shouldn't worry about it. I suppose it was true at that time and still holds true for me. I read that the first and last year IRR people are exempt, so I would have fallen under that umbrella had I been a Marine(I'm in my last six months).
I don't know that I would report again though. If I had to drop my civilian life and schooling, then go to a 2 week refresher boot camp, and shipped off to the sandbox....lets just say I think I've done my time. I might very well light up at the recruiting office, my GI bill be damned.

Ajcrash · 08-23-2006, 01:58 PM

Even lighting up may not help anymore. I have read multiple recent (last year or two) accounts of guys/gals popping hot on a UA and still being deployed to the sandbox. It is all a matter of how bad they want you, and presently they need the heartbeats in Iraq.

While I was in college I was constantly called (almost weekly) by the CA Guard, trying to get me to enlist. I told them I was medically discharged from the USMC, the response was "we can get a waiver for that." Then they asked if I had any kids I told them I did, they asked if I was married to the mother I told them I was not. That changed everything, I was told that the Guard/Reserves were not taking single parents. I said I'm not really a single parent, just not married. That didn't matter in their eyes.

Another put off was the signing bonus, at the time I could have really used the money. They asked if I was prior service, I affirmed that I was, they said, "Oh, well you don't get a signing bonus then; just green recruits." That I thought was absolutely ludicrous, a green recruit vs someone who already has the military mindset...... WTF?!?

No wonder we're up Sh!# creek!

**einheit 13** · 08-23-2006, 06:29 PM

How come XDFunny ain't here defending this??

08-22-2006, 08:54 PM	#1
Frenchy XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Mid-Missouri Posts: 13,181	Marines to recall troops to active duty When is this stupidity going to end. Bush is on a mindless vindetta with this lost cause of a war. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Marines to recall troops to active duty By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer 34 minutes ago The Marine Corps will soon begin ordering thousands of its troops back to active duty because of a shortage of volunteers for Iraq and Afghanistan — the first involuntary recall since the early days of the war. Up to 2,500 Marines will be brought back at a time, and there is no cap on the total number who may be forced back into service as the military helps fight the war on terror. The call-ups will begin in the next several months. The number of troops in Iraq has climbed back to 138,000 — the prevailing number for much of last year. Troop levels had been declining this year, to a low of about 127,000, amid growing calls from Congress and the public for a phased withdrawal. Escalating violence in Baghdad has led military leaders to increase the U.S. presence there. This is the first time the Marines have had to use the involuntary recall since the beginning of the Iraq combat. The Army, meanwhile, has issued orders recalling about 10,000 soldiers so far, but many of those may be granted exemptions. Marine Col. Guy A. Stratton, head of the manpower mobilization section, estimated that there is a current shortfall of about 1,200 Marines needed to fill positions in upcoming deployments. Some of the military needs, he said, include engineers, intelligence, military police and communications. As of Tuesday, nearly 22,000 of the 138,000 troops in Iraq were Marines. The call-up will affect Marines in the Individual Ready Reserve, a segment of the reserves that consists mainly of those who have left active duty but still have time remaining on their eight-year military obligations. Generally, Marines enlist for four years, then serve the other four years either in the regular Reserves, where they are paid and train periodically, or in the Individual Ready Reserve. Marines in the IRR are obligated to report only one day a year but can be involuntarily recalled to active duty. To date, about 5,000 Army IRR soldiers have mobilized, and about 2,200 of those are currently serving, according to Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty, an Army spokesman. Of those 2,200, about 16 percent are volunteers, he said. A typical Army enlistment obligation is also for eight years. According to Stratton, there are about 59,000 Marines in the IRR, but the Corps has decided to exempt from the call-up those who are either in their first year or last year of the reserve status. As a result, the pool of available Marines is about 35,000. The deployments can last up to two years, but on average would be 12 to 18 months, Stratton said. Each Marine who is being recalled will get five months to prepare before having to report. President Bush authorized the recall on July 26. It is the first such recall since early 2003, when about 2,000 Marines were involuntarily activated for the initial ground war in Iraq. "Since this is going to be a long war," said Stratton, "we thought it was judicious and prudent at this time to be able to use a relatively small portion of those Marines to help us augment our units." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/...arines_call_up __________________ ~SC Harvey~ "You are the instruments that God is going to use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. That's a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking."...Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan RON PAUL IN 2008

08-23-2006, 09:43 AM	#3
rimfire XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 272	I cant think this is good. These guys served their time and did their tour - or tours. They didn't want to re-enlist, probably have new jobs, and now your calling them back. That might get your more troops but how about their moral (I suspect they get no bonus either). They brag of the "all volunteer" armed forces then pull this crap. I've never been in the military myself and don't really know anyone first person that has so I don't presume to know much about it so I am asking - Before this conflict how many soldiers REALLY knew they had an extra four (??) year obligation? Was this explained by recruiters or when you were discharged? If it is clearly explained when signing then I would lean towards this being OK - you signed up for it etc. But if this is buried in 2pt font on some enlistment form, then this is truly unfair. __________________ If you're innocent, you shouldn't have to worry ... The only safeguard between yourself and unjustified prosecution and imprisonment is a thin, old piece of paper and people's willingness to uphold the words written on it. Please don't be under the mistaken assumption that innocence will protect you, or that the government isn't abusing your rights.

08-23-2006, 10:10 AM	#4
jeff221 XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 2,364	I am a gun owning, concealed weapon carrying, god fearing liberial... I'm a rarity on gun forums... That being said... This war will never end, the basis of the war is flawed... Terrorism is a tactic, not a person or army.. Terrorism is like Hiding, or Running, or jumping, it's a description word for an activity... You cannot have a "war on hideing" or a "war on jumping" because there is no way of destroying "terrorism" because it will ALWAYS exsist... When the brits came to the united states, stood in their shooting lines during wars and we (*the US) hide in the tree's and waged war in a different fashion, we could have been called terrorists back then. There is ONE simple fact that CANNOT be argued with... Killing is bad... Wether you are dropping bombs to find terrorists, flying planes into buildings, gasing insurgance that are going to overthrow you country, Killing & War should be the LAST option.. There is something I do not understand... We lost 3,000 or more of our brothers & sisters in the trade towers.. Everyone felt horrible about these lives being lost... So, what does our president do in response? He wages war in Iraq (which, if you didn't realize, had nothing to do with 9-11) which kills over 100,000 of the Iraqi's brothers and sisters (not terrorists, just regular people like you and me trying to live there life as best they know how).... I can't imagine why they aren't happy we are there... __________________ Springfield XD40 Sub-Compact Bi-Tone (.40S&W) Springfield XD9 Tactical Black (9mm) Springfield G.I. Milspec Stainless 1911-A1 (.45 ACP) Kimber Raptor II 1911 (.45 ACP) Kel-Tec P-3AT (.380 ACP) Charter Arms "Off Duty" Revolver (.38 Spl) Ruger 22/45 Mark III (.22 LR) Smith&Wesson M&P15A 16in AR-15 (.223/5.56 NATO) BushMaster Carbon-15 (.22 LR) BushMaster XM15 E2S 20in AR-15 (.223/5.56 NATO) Stoeger P350 Tactical Pump Shotgun (12 Gauge) Winchester Black Model98 Canon (10 Gauge)

08-23-2006, 10:14 AM	#5
Frenchy XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Mid-Missouri Posts: 13,181	Granted...The IRR signed a contract and knows that they can be called back up at any time, but as far as I'm concerned...this is nothing more than a "back door" draft. Bush isn't listening to anyone (other than God), and he's willing to throw away good men for his avarice. How many more will die for a country that doesn’t want us there, just to justify his place in history? I can’t believe that I voted for this asshole…TWICE… __________________ ~SC Harvey~ "You are the instruments that God is going to use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. That's a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking."...Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan RON PAUL IN 2008

08-23-2006, 11:42 AM	#6
KP Ling XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 480	Being a veteran I'll say that I knew going in about the 8 year commitment. This may depend on your recruiter and how honest/hard up to make quota he or she is. All persons enlisting (commissioning for officers lasts 20 years) are bound to render 8 years of service. In the Army you can do as little as two active up to six, or do some other amoutn in the reserves. I have heard that the minimum active in the Marines is 4 years but I'm not positive. Anyway, when you sign up you know that you owe eight years. Using me as an example: I signed up for 6 years active. When that 6 was up I could have either extended (which I did), re-enlisted (these start out at a minimum of 4 years in the Army so I just extended one year at a time until I hit eight years), gone into the ready reserves (weekend a month, 2 weeks a summer), or the last option the IRR. Others I knew did two years active and then 6 in the ready reserves. Some just do 4 active and 4 IRR. IRR status only becomes a big deal in war when recruitment slips. It also is easier/cheaper to recall someone who has all the training and experience rather than get someone green off the streets IRR stands for individual ready reserve and, in peacetime, is basically nothing more than you being contacted by a recruiter every six months to make sure you are still at the same address and phone number for ease of contact in case they have to call you up. Usually they just call and hassle you to re-enlist or join the Ready Reserves. While in IRR the military can legally make you show up once every six months to take a physical to make sure you are still deployable/fit to serve or do rifle qualifications, etc.. They could also make you report in person to a recruiting office so the recruiter can update your info and more easily hassle you about re-enlisting. They do not do this because then they have to pay you as if you showed up to a drill like the ready reserves do. With a war on it is just easier to put you back in uniform on active duty so they have mass call-ups, keep those still fit or in critical skills and let the rest go. I never had to do IRR, as I said I just extended until my 8 total years were up and then they had no claim on me. It is pretty easy to get out of though, get fat or do drugs and they will send you home with your honorable still intact. They are still kicking out gay people who actually fight tooth and nail to stay in so you could "come out of the closet" as many male troops do right before a war or long deployment. Women go the pregnant route when they want to get out of overseas/combat tours. Also, I know guys who did tours in Iraq and did not want to leave college after they started when they came back but got called-up since they were still on IRR. They simply got sympathetic civilian doctors to do their health questionnaire and were never contacted again by the military. By the way there is no such thing as college deferrment for people in IRR. They can be called-up no matter what their job or educational situation is. They are also instituting, at least in the army, a new, crude form of battlefield commission. If you have an associate's degree or are at least halfway to a bacclaureate then you can become an officer but you can not rise above the rank of captain until you get a baccalaureate. I am on the fence though about this IRR issue. These people signed a contract and should live up to it, they have a legal obligation. However, they are also not volunteers since they would have gone down to the recruiter's office while still on IRR had they felt a moral obligation to serve. Either way, as Son of Norway said, the only thing left if you continue the war is a draft. Hope this sheds some light on the IRR process. __________________ "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - James Madison Last edited by KP Ling; 08-23-2006 at 11:44 AM.

08-23-2006, 11:54 AM	#7
Frenchy XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Mid-Missouri Posts: 13,181	Good explanatory post, KP...Thanks. __________________ ~SC Harvey~ "You are the instruments that God is going to use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. That's a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking."...Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan RON PAUL IN 2008

08-23-2006, 12:13 PM	#8
jkswiss XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,085	When I signed the dotted line at 17, I was told it was an eight year obligation. I had six active, and two in the IRR. I was basically told that almost no one gets called up for their extra years and that I shouldn't worry about it. I suppose it was true at that time and still holds true for me. I read that the first and last year IRR people are exempt, so I would have fallen under that umbrella had I been a Marine(I'm in my last six months). I don't know that I would report again though. If I had to drop my civilian life and schooling, then go to a 2 week refresher boot camp, and shipped off to the sandbox....lets just say I think I've done my time. I might very well light up at the recruiting office, my GI bill be damned.

08-23-2006, 01:58 PM	#9
Ajcrash XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,216	Even lighting up may not help anymore. I have read multiple recent (last year or two) accounts of guys/gals popping hot on a UA and still being deployed to the sandbox. It is all a matter of how bad they want you, and presently they need the heartbeats in Iraq. While I was in college I was constantly called (almost weekly) by the CA Guard, trying to get me to enlist. I told them I was medically discharged from the USMC, the response was "we can get a waiver for that." Then they asked if I had any kids I told them I did, they asked if I was married to the mother I told them I was not. That changed everything, I was told that the Guard/Reserves were not taking single parents. I said I'm not really a single parent, just not married. That didn't matter in their eyes. Another put off was the signing bonus, at the time I could have really used the money. They asked if I was prior service, I affirmed that I was, they said, "Oh, well you don't get a signing bonus then; just green recruits." That I thought was absolutely ludicrous, a green recruit vs someone who already has the military mindset...... WTF?!? No wonder we're up Sh!# creek! __________________ "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

08-23-2006, 06:29 PM	#10
einheit 13 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Virginia, C.S.A. Posts: 5,682	How come XDFunny ain't here defending this?? __________________ Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time is enemy action “It is the lack of will power, and not the lack of arms which render us incapable of offering any serious resistance.”

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