Generals Think "Rummie" is a Dummy!

[KP Ling]

Rumsfeld was pissed because after 9/11 the CIA were the only ones who had worked up an invasion scenario for Afghanistan and had the assets in place (liaisons colocated with the warring factions opposed to the Taliban) to make it happen. Although the DOD was nominally in charge they were going off of the CIA plan and lead, using lots of CIA operatives and heavy on special forces and airpower operating with indigenous forces.

We had some plans for Iraq but they mostly consisted of Desert Storm like operations; coalitions, massive invasion from multiple locations involving hundreds of thousands of troops, invading troops moving in behind a liberal use of airpower and artillery. This conflicted with Rumsfeld's idea of "transformation" or making the Army small, light and quick. These Clinton era plans were also partly done in collaboration with the State Department to solve the rebuilding and occupation. Rumsfeld lobbied for and took the occupation away from State since he did not want the military to do any occupation or nation-building. Rumsfeld wanted initialy to go in with as little as 70,000 troops but he and Gen. Franks cam to a compromise and that is how we got the 135,000 that went in. We have never gone below that number during the occupation. Also, in Iraq we had no sympathetic networks in country to help us out once we got there like in Afghanistan. The Iraqis sympathetic to us were expatriates who had been out of Iraq for years and so did not have up-to-date intel or, more importantly, credibility with their countrymen who could not excape Saddam's rule.

[amaverick]

Rumsfield is ruining the military and this war. He has this idea that a fast, small, high tech army can be more affective than a regular army and he is pushing that idea even though it has proven to be a disaster. Look at what Powell always said about war. Go in with an overwhelming force but we did not do that in Iraq. We did not have enough troops to secure territory as we took it by-passing ammo dumps, enemy troops, etc. What have all the generals complained about? Not enough troops to get the job done but Rummy will not listen. I say replace him with someone who will let the military do their job.

[NewXD40fun]

Originally Posted by amaverick

Rumsfield is ruining the military and this war. He has this idea that a fast, small, high tech army can be more affective than a regular army and he is pushing that idea even though it has proven to be a disaster. Look at what Powell always said about war. Go in with an overwhelming force but we did not do that in Iraq. We did not have enough troops to secure territory as we took it by-passing ammo dumps, enemy troops, etc. What have all the generals complained about? Not enough troops to get the job done but Rummy will not listen. I say replace him with someone who will let the military do their job.

What do you mean by overwhelming force?

Don't you remember our troops chasing broken Iraqi forces into Baghdad and many other large cities where they just melted back into the population.

"Not enough troops" - to do what?

Should we have just killed everybody?


Tom

[Mark S.]

Not enough troops to properly pacify the country, secure the borders, and crush the insurgency! Rummie is not just a dummy, he's a blithering idot!

[NewXD40fun]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

Not enough troops to properly pacify the country, secure the borders, and crush the insurgency! Rummie is not just a dummy, he's a blithering idot!

How much is enough?

Tom

[one-eyed-fatman]

It's way to late to even ask that question.

[NewXD40fun]

Originally Posted by one-eyed-fatman

It's way to late to even ask that question.

In that case, any idiot can say, "Not enough troops to properly pacify the country, secure the borders, and crush the insurgency.."




Tom

[one-eyed-fatman]

What's done is done Bush and Rummy fu@ked up bad.

[NewXD40fun]

Nah.

The Rumsfeld strategy saved thousands of Coalition soldier's lives.



Tom

[Rob6852]

Hey funnygun....
Ever been in war? Oh, that's right....you never served.
When people speak of "overwhelming force", they are not just talking
about troops on the ground. They are also talking about Tanks, APC's,
and enough artillary to turn a country and everyone in it into a
parking lot if they so choose.
You don't fight a war half assed. You go in expecting the worst is going
to be thrown at you and those ass-clowns in the govenment ( i.e.
Rumsfeld, Cheany, Bush) severly under estimated what they would be
facing once we were commited to an invasion.
They thought that the Iraqi people would jump up and down for joy that
we took Saddam out....and some did. And the radical muslim clerics that
were controled under Saddams regime are now free to spead thier
message of hate for not only us but all other factions of muslims in that
country. The radical muslim clerics are the ones that are fanning the
fires of the resistance in Iraq aginst our boys.
And here is my question to you funnygun.....how can you bring freedom
and democracy to a people that have known neither?
All they have known is oppression under the various govenments that
have rulled Iraq. That and the Muslim religion is so ingrained into their
everyday life that it cannot be seperated from their govenment.
The radical muslim clerics see our form of govenment as a threat to
their view of non-secular rule and will do any and everything to stop it.
Mark my words, the day we pull out of Iraq will be the day the muslim
clerics take over the government that they feel that we have pushed
upon them and they WILL kill the majority of the members of that
govenment. Then we will have another country like Iran on our hands.
Be carefull what you wish for......you may just get it.
And you might not like the results.
Later.
Rob