Utah

[einheit 13]

With politicians now battling in Washington over competing visions for the country’s immigration policy, both sides are looking to Utah to see if the State’s approach to illegal immigration holds any policy lessons


http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_3663998

[KP Ling]

http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic....32326&start=15 -A post I made on why I do not think religious doctrine is a good idea as a basis of legislation.

There are also several problems with the facts in the article. I am not disputing that what they report are facts but I think they are poor conclusions.

1) I am not Mormon and so I cannot understand how they see native Americans as one of the twelve lost tribes of Israel. Would not everyone be a member of one of the twelve tribes if you go back to the flood? This line of thought means that all people everywhere are entitled to come here and be American, or just illegally reside here. This is not so. Americans decide who else has earned the right to be an American citizen. How would they like it if the entire population of Mexico, Central and South America showed up?

2) What will happen if the majority of hispanic immigrants do not become Mormon and change the state's predominately Mormon make-up to say, Catholic? Would they still want more and more to come? I appreciate people trying to live up to their faith's teachings and do missionary work but why not teach a little self-reliance and stick it out where God put you to begin with? Do they not want to make the whole world better or just Utah? Should we allow more and more people to risk their lives and break the law crossing the border for the Church of Latter Day Saints to potentially grow?

3) The vast majority of Americans are not Mormon so should we all have to comply with a government program inspired by their doctrine or interpretation of scripture? The Catholic diocese in America is encouraging illegal immigrants as well as some other faith groups and alliances so I can not say that it is just the Mormons. Utah just happens to have a singular religious branding more than any other state in the union. Still, should we all be forced, not to accomodate which is protected, but to participate in what one particular faith sees as part and parcel of its religious doctrine/mission. Letting someone pray is vastly different than making someone pray.

4) ""...we've moved in the right direction, and that is towards tolerance," [Rep.] Cannon said." This assumes that wanting to stop illegal immigration is tantamount to being racist. Were it a flood of Europeans coming over here then I would oppose illegal immigration still. It is only through the happenstance of geography and history that most illegal immigration is coming from a hispanic country that is itself a melting pot of European and Native American cultures. Spainards are hispanic as well as white and I would not want 12 million of them here illegally either. The same goes for Germans, Russians, English, French or Italians.

5) I have read the Book of Mormon and the Bible and have found in neither book a passage which makes it a sin to deny someone a driver's license or in-state tuition rates if they illegally immigrate to another country.

6) I do agree somewhat with the open borders policy but do not think it is a rolling out of the welcome mat that Utah envisions. Deny entitlements (I would scrap them completely), rights and privileges reserved for actual citizens and employment to illegal immigrants and then I bet you would not have to put but a dozen border patrol agents on the payroll. This would cost no tax dollars and would strike at the root of why people illegally immigrate here. Being poor in America is not like being poor anywhere else and so people that live in third world countries feel free to come here since living in poverty in America, because of our already vast and expanding welfare/entitlement system, is not a life and death situation.

I do feel bad about the plight of other people in poor countries around the world. Giving to charity is noble and I recommend it to anybody. However, letting illegal immigrants stay and giving them the resources which were paid for through taxes is morality compelled through the use of government force. It would be like me holding anyone of you up at gunpoint, taking part of your money for my own troubles and then handing another part of it to a homeless person. There is no moraltiy in that since I forced you to do it and I lost all of my morality in the process by using force or the threat of it in the process.

[SLCDave]

I live in Utah and I am a Mormon, but I was not raised here, so I do have some outside-of-Utah perspective. It's not any more of a religious issue than treating others as you would want to be treated, charity, kindness, etc. Utah is a pretty nice place to live. As long as the people that come here agree to maintain the "nice place to live" part, I don't care what religion you follow. What I DO expect is for you to be a contributing member of society (pay your taxes, immigrate legally, keep your lawn nice, obey the laws, make efforts to learn English, etc.). Most illegal immigrants are just looking for a better life. They should be treated with respect, but they should also be returned to their native land until they can immigrate legally.

I don't think it's right that someone that isn't here legally should be allowed to receive resident tuition rates to colleges and universities, or any other benefit reserved for citizens. Hell, I can't even afford in-state tuition, I don't know how some people do it.