Yawn

[tgom222]

Only someone blinded by hatred would criticize plans to reduce dependence on foreign oil and to increase research in renewable energy sources.

This is a cause that everyone from any party should support.

Maybe Democrats should be calling up the Senators and Reps and asking them to get this passed.

If we could switch to at least a partially ethanol/biodiesel run energy economy, we could be lining the pockets of American farmers instead of Middle Eastern Aristocrats. This would good for everyone. These farmers would then be spending all that money back here in the U.S. helping everyone else out.

Why would you not want this?

[Ed 2001 SS]

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

bio-fuels will give us the equivalent of hundreds of miles from a gallon of gasoline.

...pipe dreams...

Tom

Math lesson:

Assume:
1. Vehicle gets 30 MPG.
2. E85 is being used as fuel. (E85 = 85% ethyl alcohol and 15% gasoline).

Put one gallon of E85 in the car and you will travel 30 miles. In that process, you will have used .15 gallons of gasoline to travel those 30 miles.

Extrapolate out to one full gallon of gasoline (plus the corresponding amount of ethyl alcohol) and you will see 200 miles can be travelled on one gallon of gas.

Sure you will use 5.6 gallons of ethyl alcohol as well, but we don't get ethyl alcohol from foreign sources.

Of course this does not address the practicality behind creating that much ethyl alcohol, but at least it explains the 200 mpg claim.

Dismissing the possibility of using E85 as a pipe dream show very little creative thinking when it comes to addressing this country's energy problems. At least oil company profits are at an all time high. I'm sure they are hard at work addressing the problem.

[attackrott]

Delija I must agree with you on much that you say. And I would like to give you some props. My view of most of your posts was very Liberal and I probably would have put you in the Bush hater category. Lately however I have been very impressed that most of your posts seem to be less partisan and seem to give Bush a fair shake good and bad. (not a cool aid drinker that he is all wonderful or all bad and the devil) By no means am I a Bush lover or think he is some great president. It has been a long while since we had a great leader as a president. It is true Washington is so divided and so full of partisan fighting like a bunch of spoiled kids. I do find it funny that Democrats have expectations of Bush but will not expect it form themselves. The Democrats expect Bush to come to their side to unify by appointing a pro-choice justice and compromise on Their issues. I did not listen to the speech since I am getting tired of all these wind bags spewing crap from their mouths but not doing anything. (Democraps and Republicants) Why wont they DO anything; about the borders, tax reform (support the Fair Tax), social security reform or DO anything that is worth while. The democrats cant think past Abortion, homosexuality, higher taxes, THE WAR, and more government hand outs. I am just getting more sad and depressed with all these bumbs. Please someone help convince me that some of these worthless bumbs care about me. (regardless of party)

[Mark S.]

Math lesson:

Assume:
1. Vehicle gets 30 MPG.
2. E85 is being used as fuel. (E85 = 85% ethyl alcohol and 15% gasoline).

Put one gallon of E85 in the car and you will travel 30 miles. In that process, you will have used .15 gallons of gasoline to travel those 30 miles.

Extrapolate out to one full gallon of gasoline (plus the corresponding amount of ethyl alcohol) and you will see 200 miles can be travelled on one gallon of gas.

Sure you will use 5.6 gallons of ethyl alcohol as well, but we don't get ethyl alcohol from foreign sources.

Of course this does not address the practicality behind creating that much ethyl alcohol, but at least it explains the 200 mpg claim.

Dismissing the possibility of using E85 as a pipe dream show very little creative thinking when it comes to addressing this country's energy problems. At least oil company profits are at an all time high. I'm sure they are hard at work addressing the problem.[/quote]

Ed,

That is an interesting calculation. However, it does not take into account how much petroleum is needed to produce the gallon of E85. In addition, if I recall correctly, the energy content of a gallon of E85 is less than that of a gallon of gasoline.

I do think that ethanol will help us reduce the need for foreign oil, but I don't think that the gain is quite as great as the calculation implies.

[attackrott]

I just don’t see what we can do. Democrats will not let us drill here do to environmental concerns and many of them keep blocking much of the alternative energy possibilities for the same environmental concerns. Environmental concerns are real issues and need to be taken into concern, but we do know what problems we have relying on foreign energy. What can we do? I am not that smart but my understanding is that ethyl alcohol and hydrogen is not worth it cost in vs cost out. I could be wrong (my wife will tell you that I am wrong much of the time) All the cost to grow corn (combines, fuel, etc) for how much ethyl alcohol. And if that is what the majority of your corn use what is left for food. I can see if we use grass, crap or waist items but to use a good feed product does not make sense to me. Hydrogen production I know very little can someone inform me. I just think that will make a whole lot of driving bombs that could be made into a good bomb if desired. I am not putting blame but we Need some real possible solutions.

[Brickboy240]

That speech was pitiful.

An amnesty program...esentially telling all that broke our laws "thats ok...now work here and send money to Mexico legally" thats truly awful. No mention of the Texas border run-in or the 4 Iraqui men captured in Mexico, trying to make it into the US.

Yeah, the US us addicted to foreign oil...and you're not doing a damn thing to curb it. Ethanol os a joke - it makes todays alloy engines run hotter and wear out sooner - it is not the future of cleaner fuels. Not one mention of biodiesel - something we could run TODAY in automobiles..cars the everyone can afford, not expensive, unproiven hybrids for celebrities. Why is Bush afraid of biodiesel? I have a business associate that is running a 1982 Mercedes sedan on biodiesel that he is experimenting with and the thing burns clean and gets 36mpg on the highway. Willie Nelson is running his huge tour bus on biodiesel right now. Don't tell me its not a possiblilty. Germany is moving towards 100% useage of biodiesel. So is Italy and Spain. Why are we dragging our feet?

His talk on making more efficient electricity said nothing about the possiblilty of nuclear power plants. Don't tell me they won't work. I have driven the Swedish and Finnish countryside and seen dozens of working, cleanly ran nuclear power plants (that was in 199. If the Swedes and Finns are doing it NOW...what are WE waiting on?

I am really losing faith in Bush. Don't get me wrong, he is still a better choice than the leftist Democrats, but not by much and the margin is shrinking fast.

What are we to do when BOTH sides scare us to death? I am sorry, but Howard Dean and his merry men are not the answer...and I don't know who is!

- Brickboy240

[attackrott]

I am starting to believe that we should keep using foreign oil. This is actually a great strategic plan. We need to develop more refiners and alternative energy. When most of the foreign oil is used up and we are heading for WWIII with China or other countries we will be sitting on all the oil we need.

[Brickboy240]

Its too bad we do not foster a better oil relationship with Mexico and the South American countries and let go of the Mid East and its unstability. I know that many South American countries are no models of stability but at least they're not running planes into our buildings.

- Brickboy240

[attackrott]

Biodiesel is our best bet. I have thought about doing this since it is not complicated and Americans love their fried foods. Someone above mentioned biodiesel but then they started talking about Ethanol. This can be make from waist products.

[Brickboy240]

Ask any mechanic, alcohol based fuels like ehtanol run too hot and will cause premature engine wear, especially on today's alloy and aluminum engines. Its not like it was 20 years ago, when most car engines were all cast iron blocks and heads and forged steel pistons. Todays engines have lots of alloy and plastic parts and they WILL wear out faster if you use alcohol based fuels, period. A great deal for automakers, because thay get to sell more cars as they will not last as long. Not such a good deal for you the person that has to buy the car.

My friend is running a 1982 Mercedes 300D turbodiesel 4 door sedan - a pretty big car that is heavy and has about 175K miles on the clock, on biodiesel and getting around 28mpg city and 35-36mpg highway. Thats a heavy, old, well worn car...not one of the newer, lighter, smaller cars. It burns cleaner than a new gasoline vehicle and is not subject to the silly emissions testing in this city, because it is a diesel.

Don't tell me that we cannot make a turbodiesel Accord or Camry that gets 42mpg...its very much a reality and it could start next model year and not cost nearly what a hybrid does.

BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, VW and Audi all make diesel sedans that are in production and have been for years in Europe. I have seen these cars. They're not stupid little ugly things like a Prius or Civic hybrid - they're real cars, with leather, sunroofs and a trunk that is functional. They're good looking and get well over 30mpg in the city. Why can't we import these cars RIGHT NOW and run them on biodiesel? The Germans are doing this RIGHT NOW.

This is the question I am asking.

If you want independence from mid-east oil...there it is...its not far off in the future...its available right friggin' now!

- Brickboy240