Fish or Families? A thread about the government saving the environment.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by afmo

Yeah, some bureaucrat who's probably never set foot in the San Joaquin Delta and doesn't even understand the toll he's taking on American families and cities.

This is why the endangered species act and all this environmentalist crap is a load of horse ****. Nothing is black and white and this proves it. Save a 2 inch fish, destroy agriculture for an entire valley. Worth it? No, not by a long shot.

The Valley would not survive without water being pumped in there. It's an artificial situation to begin with, as are Los Angeles, San Diego and all of Orange County.

[AZXD]

Ahh, If only we had that mentality here, and also in Nevada ... We could dry up vast segments of California and turn those infested, control the entire State with a twisted mentality areas, back into a desert, and save the good people of California a lot of fighting over basic rights, lead bullets, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I feel sorry for a few of you ... I really do !!!
But the people who support killing an entire industry, and it's people, to save a minnow, or some other environmental crap ... They always make me wish California would fall into the Ocean

Ehh, but that mentality would then cause me to wish Arizona would fall into the Ocean.

Good luck with the idiots !!!

[photogbill]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

The Valley would not survive without water being pumped in there. It's an artificial situation to begin with, as are Los Angeles, San Diego and all of Orange County.

This "artificial situation" ...as you so cavalierly term it ...is called irrigation!

It's a centuries old process that has served mankind with agricultural goods ...well ...for thousands of years! What problem ...exactly ...do you have with it ...to dismiss it as "artificial"!

Do you like to argue ...for the sole purpose of arguing...regardless to the absurdity of your statements?....or do you really have a point to make here?

Let's cut to the chase ...dear 'professional againster' ...what is YOUR personal opinion about this judicial decision and it's relevance to the people that live in "The Valley"!?

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by photogbill

This "artificial situation" ...as you so cavalierly term it ...is called irrigation!

It's a centuries old process that has served mankind with agricultural goods ...well ...for thousands of years! What problem ...exactly ...do you have with it ...to dismiss it as "artificial"!

Do you like to argue ...for the sole purpose of arguing...regardless to the absurdity of your statements?....or do you really have a point to make here?

Let's cut to the chase ...dear 'professional againster' ...what is YOUR personal opinion about this judicial decision and it's relevance to the people that live in "The Valley"!?

I favor preserving life in the river system and helping out farmers as much as possible - probably with the stimulus bill that Republicans hate so much.

Republicans and Democrats alike urged McDonald to fund the so-called "Two Gates Project," a $26.5 million plan to install two temporary gates in the central Delta that would reduce the loss of fish and thereby minimize water export restrictions. McDonald did not commit his agency one way or another on any particular project.

California drought hearing produces partisan sniping | McClatchy

[photogbill]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

I favor preserving life in the river system and helping out farmers as much as possible - probably with the stimulus bill that Republicans hate so much.





California drought hearing produces partisan sniping | McClatchy

Where exactly do farmers get relief or where is this lunitic judge's ruling reversed by the 'porkulous' bill? Please supply supportive provisions in the porkulous bill!

Secondly ...why does there need to be tax dollars spent to rectify or reverse the absurd ruling made by a fool of a judge who puts the survival of a miniscule species of fish over the livelihoods and the health of millions of living and breathing humans who benefit from the farming industry that he/she destroyed!?

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by photogbill

Where exactly do farmers get relief or where is this lunitic judge's ruling reversed by the 'porkulous' bill? Please supply supportive provisions in the porkulous bill!

Secondly ...why does there need to be tax dollars spent to rectify or reverse the absurd ruling made by a fool of a judge who puts the survival of a miniscule species of fish over the livelihoods and the health of millions of living and breathing humans who benefit from the farming industry that he/she destroyed!?

Saving the fish saves other fish, which feed people. Okay? Do you want a bunch of dead rivers all over the country?

We are in a drought. This is not a manufactured event. It is happening. The farmers will not get their normal supply of water. They probably will get reimbursement from the stimulus bill. The governor has already declared a state of emergency.

[billbrasky]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

Saving the fish saves other fish, which feed people. Okay? Do you want a bunch of dead rivers all over the country?

We are in a drought. This is not a manufactured event. It is happening. The farmers will not get their normal supply of water. They probably will get reimbursement from the stimulus bill. The governor has already declared a state of emergency.

wrong.

just another instance of you reading your socialist blogs, making this a focus of your life to be a radical environmentalist, and you dont have the faintest understanding of nature and how it works.

This ONE fish is not the keystone holding the waters ecology together. As it is there is hardly any of them .. losing them does not mean the other fish die. It means a more common minnow, now takes the every so minute portion of the water this rare almost meaningless fish consumed. NOTHING changes.

Except this is a great was for socialist and communists to wreck business, and crate havoc. so of course you love it.

take the spotted owl of 1990s fame. Who cares its an owl with a spot, it eats and sleeps and kills the same rodents as non spotted owls. A spot is useless and meaningless. Now ALL owls being extinct would be a problem. They eat the nasty diseased rodents that come out at night. No owls period in a multi state region is bad. Loss of one sub species of a common owl? It absolutely doesn nothing, but give eco **** and eco terrorists something to say on the news to get unintelligent, un educated foolish folks riled up, and put tens of thousands of loggers out of business.

In california million and millions of trees that are 20 and 30 years old are going to die. You cant just start up an orchard with a switch, it takes decades to get one to have momentum, where your current output is funding expanision, and new tools and equipement.

You cant go spend 3 million on tractors and barns, and hire 200 guys to tend to little seedlings.

all the folks that bought tens of millions in gear for their ranches, they are going to have to make payments on that stuff for the next ten year, and they are not going to have jack $hit squat to use it on. Its going to be a dust bowl!

you are completely ignorant of the things you claim to care about.

its sickening.

One little rare fish dieing doesn t cause the collapse of the eco system. your a damn fool if you believe that. Now if ALL little fish died yes, that would kill many of the big fish that dont eat plant, and only eat fish. But this fish is already rare. IF IT WAS SO IMPORTANT THE RIVERS WOULD BE ALMOST DEAD, BECAUSE THE SPECIES IS SOOOOO DEPELETED.

the fact the rivers and streams are not dead shows how un important this stupid little fish is.

Your compeletely illogical.

you just need to go to school all over again.

your the 60 year old female billy madison. You should go to 1st grade tommarrow and just do the entire thing all over, till 12th grade. In your current state, your just dead weight holding back everyone else.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by billbrasky

just another instance of you reading your socialist blogs, making this a focus of your life to be a radical environmentalist, and you dont have the faintest understanding of nature and how it works.

you are completely ignorant of the things you claim to care about.

its sickening.

Your compeletely illogical.

you just need to go to school all over again.

your the 60 year old female billy madison. You should go to 1st grade tommarrow and just do the entire thing all over, till 12th grade. In your current state, your just dead weight holding back everyone else.

More character attacks from someone who can't argue issues without insulting people, and who should be banned.

[billbrasky]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

More character attacks from someone who can't argue issues without insulting people, and who should be banned.

socialist stalker.

your here vocalizing emotion and your innate hatred of business, and people not living off the teet of the gubment.

explain your logisitical fallacy.

how is this important fish almost extinct, but the waters and rivers have never been better in many many decades, maybe 100 years.

could it be that this stupid little fish means absolutely nothing and it is in no way special or more special than any of the dozens of other more healthy and populated minnow species?

its has no upside to saving it, unless you are a socialist, and darn near a communist.

By the way you old shrew, i owned you, I did argue the facts.

character attacks as you would like to label them are not attacks. Just labels as to what you are, and what you do. Not sugar coated, but that doesnt make it an attack.

is racist, biggot, war monger, neo con, etc a character attack ?

you use those words SO YOU DONT have to respond. You are so conditioned in your affirmative action, myopic socialist world you think since you cringe and see red when someone calls someone a racist, all you have to do is yell racist, and you win. Thats why you have done it so much.

failure.

you didnt respond to my well thought out response, and instead decried what you do daily. Feel good about yourself?

dont you have a socialist meeting to attend to, or some business to protest, light on fire, sue out of existence or something?

[Etta Place]

The California Water Wars: Pumping the Delta Smelt Into Oblivion
by Tom Chandler on July 8, 2007

When I lived in the SF Bay Area, I fished the California Delta often. If you wanted to catch fish, you paid attention to the tidal flows, but you also knew that all bets were off when the massive pumps in the Southern Delta started pulling water and sending it south.

In many cases, the pumps removed so much water that the flows would actually reverse, and you didn’t have to be a scientist to know that wasn’t a good thing.

Battle for the Delta Smelt

If you’ve never fished it, the Delta is a maze of channels and levees that drains most of the central valley watersheds into the Pacific Ocean.

It’s home to a dizzying array of fish — including the numerous anadramous species migrating through. It’s also home to the endangered Delta Smelt, and has become a battleground pitting a tiny, two-inch fish against some of the most powerful water pumps known to man:

FRESNO — State water officials decided this week to switch off water pumps in the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta at night, hoping that pumping during daylight hours would help protect a tiny, threatened fish species.

Some 609 Delta smelt have been killed in the pumps in July alone — since state and federally owned pumps that carry drinking and irrigation water from the Delta ramped up to normal operating levels last month.

This “pumping days only” decision comes on the heels of a late-May total shutdown of the system to protect the Smelt — one which raised howls of concern from water districts all over the southern half of the state (but few mandated conservation plans).

The halt hasn’t really helped; Delta Smelt populations are crashing hard — some fear it’s too late to save the few remaining smelt. From the end of the Contra Costa Time article:

Regardless, environmentalists said the move came too late to keep the fish population from crashing.

“We have a species that has been brought to the brink of extinction,” said Bill Jennings, head of the California Sportfishing Protection Alliance. “Why is it essential that pumping be maintained until there are no smelt left in the Delta?”

A cynical observer might suggest that pumping the Delta Smelt into oblivion is a goal of water interests, who would rather the problem disappeared than have to struggle with it for years to come.

Still, with groups like the California Sportfishing Protection Alliance taking up the cause (I profiled them here a few days ago), I suppose there’s hope. Still, it’s far more likely the powerful water interests to the south will have their say, the pumps will run, and the Delta Smelt will exist only as a memory.

The Bad, The Ugly, The Ugliest

It’s hardly surprising there’s little support for the Delta Smelt among the water consumers (big agriculture, cities, swimming pools, movie stars…) of the central and southern halves of the state, and if you needed proof, check out the reader comments to a Sacramento Bee article.

One dim bulb “researched” the smelt online and concluded that all the noise was being made over a fish that lives in the Great Lakes, while another invoked the Iraq war and other problems to suggest we “get back to basics” — which in this case means business as usual on the species extinction front.

Stay tuned for more from the California Water Wars. We expect they’ll be raging for years to come.

The California Water Wars: Pumping the Delta Smelt Into Oblivion | The Trout Underground Fly Fishing Blog