Liberals clinically mad, concludes top psychiatrist

[LittleDave]

Originally Posted by tooslim

So you're going to come up with a plan that the person working for 20k a year can afford?

Fine, give them a tax credit, add it to their EIC

Originally Posted by tooslim

The problem with the catasrophic care option you guys seem so fond of is it ignores the wellness component.

Wellness component, that sounds wonderful 1 check up per year, every 2 years depending on your age would probably save money in the long run.

Originally Posted by tooslim

Will your plan take into account the need for preventative care so that people will not have to wait until they're gravely ill to see a doctor?

What is preventative care? Take a daily and eat right.

Originally Posted by tooslim

Sure, if they pay more. But what if they can't afford it? They're back into holding off seeing a physician until they're really ill and will need much more expensive care than they would have if they'd gone earlier.

So we cover people to go to the doctor for a hangnail, using up resources for people who really need it? Because that's what will happen.

Originally Posted by tooslim

This is were the selfishness is self defeating.It's like the old Fram commercials - pay a little now - pay a lot later. By doing things on the cheap at the front end, you/we pay a lot more at the back end.

HAHA, yeah, wait for April 15th

Originally Posted by tooslim

Theres a difference between self interest and "enlightened" self interest that is lost on some in the conservative movement

Of course you're on the side of the "enlightened". It would be impossible for anyone to think about this as deeply as you have and come to a different, possibly better conclusion.

/sarcasm

[billbrasky]

Originally Posted by trik396

Please find the "study"... I'd love to see how a 25% influx of non-paying, (at my hospital) non-insured illegals COULDN'T hurt the bottom line on a hospital/healthcare.

you are definately correct on the 25%.

that is the amount of services a hospital must give away in order to remain/retain non profit status.

Now the business loathing libs on here love the sound of that. That does not mean no body makes money. The docs still make big bucks, the nurses still make big bucks, the administration makes ungodly bucks. Only difference is the paying customers pay more, and the hospital pays ZERO taxes.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by XDConvert9mm

Are any of these "people" those who actually use this system? Please provide backup for this claim.

People in the Netherlands are happy with their system, and people in other parts of the world want to adopt a similar system for their countries, including the U.S.

September 6, 2007, 7:23 AM ET.
Health Insurance Goes Dutch.

The Dutch are taking a novel approach to health care, and it has nothing to do with providing herbal remedies in Amsterdam’s coffee shops.

Starting in 2006, the Netherlands has required all adults to buy their own health insurance, or pay a penalty. And insurers must offer policy to all comers, no matter how sick or old they are, WSJ’s Gautam Naik reports.

The government subsidizes policies for adults who can’t afford to pay premiums and makes “risk-equalization” payments to insurers that cover the elderly and those with some chronic conditions such as diabetes.

The current Dutch program differs from plans in other parts of Europe, which mostly offer national health care, and the U.S., which largely relies on employers paying for the bulk of coverage.

The idea behind the Dutch is that individuals will enroll in health plans that provide the coverage they need instead of a one-size-fits-all plan chosen by an employer. And individuals will pay more attention to health costs, which are largely ignored when the government picks up the tab. The Dutch want the “risk-equalization” incentive payments to motivate insurers to cover more than just healthy customers.

It’s too early to tell if the Dutch treatment to manage costs and improve quality will become a model for the rest of the world. But anecdotal reports show things are moving in the right direction.

Insurer Rival UVIT offered to pay the gym membership fee for Rianne Boel, who was overweight and diabetic, if she lost 7.5% of her weight in 15 months. Boel cut back on french fries and pizza and started walking, cycling and rowing. The changes helped her reach the goal. “I don’t like exercising,” Boel says, “but at least I can now walk without a stick.”

Besides the benefit of walking upright without support, customers such as Boel have also benefited from a price war that saw insurers offer premiums lower than what the government estimates. The government predicted insurers in 2006 would offer annual premium averages of €1,106, or about $1,500, but the average was set at €1,028, 7.6% lower. This year, it has risen to €1,103, which is still less than the €1,134 the government predicted for 2007.

Alain Enthoven, a Stanford professor whose ideas about “managed competition” were influential in the Dutch approach, believes the U.S. should replicate the plan. “The lesson for America is that this is what we ought to do,” Enthoven says.

Health Insurance Goes Dutch - Health Blog - WSJ


I think it sounds a lot better than our system because it puts the decision-making in the hands of the individual.

[LittleDave]

Originally Posted by KEVWYO

As to the bolded black: If companies don't get any breaks for offering health insurance is it conceivable that they might just opt out of offering it at all? Wouldn't that make an already bad situation worse?

If individuals got the same breaks you wouldn't be limited by your company to which health care plan you could use.

That would get people more used to taking care of themselves.

[LittleDave]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

People in the Netherlands are happy with their system, and people in other parts of the world want to adopt a similar system for their countries, including the U.S.




Health Insurance Goes Dutch - Health Blog - WSJ


I think it sounds a lot better than our system because it puts the decision-making in the hands of the individual.

That doesn't seem too bad. At least from the part you quoted.

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by LittleDave

If individuals got the same breaks you wouldn't be limited by your company to which health care plan you could use.

That would get people more used to taking care of themselves.

I think you're on the right track.

Did you know that the most common medical procedures done today are joint replacements and the implacement of stents for opening arteries?

[LittleDave]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

I think you're on the right track.

Did you know that the most common medical procedures done today are joint replacements and the implacement of stents for opening arteries?

Happens at the baby boomer age.

[billbrasky]

[quote=tooslim;2013322]I'm curious. Are they employeed? Does their job come with health care benefits?

For me personally, in my own little self centered world, our health care system is fine. I pay my co-pay and see a doctor when I need to. My deductibles are lowish - life is good. If you ask my wife's uncle you might get a different story. At 60 he lost his job, and picked up one as a janitor (no benefits) and then at 62 was diagnosed with esphogeal cancer. Buying his own insurance on his salary was out of the question. He doesn't qualify for medicade or medicare. So what is he to do? Die.

Originally Posted by tooslim

Like so many things, were you stand depends on where you sit.

NOOOOO. Right is right, wrong is wrong. The rules are the rules. When you loose you dont ask for a do over.

If i get cancer when i am 62, or have a heart attack when i am 75, and i dont have insurance, i swear on the bible, i will just roll over and die.

where you stand depends on where you sit ... FOR LIBERALS. Because they are stunted men/children. They cant accept they are not the best. Their mommies told them they were, how come they didnt win???? waaah. I am 62 and broke.

your uncle screwed up big time if your 62 and he is broke.

I should not have to live meagerly in my young years to prop up some one who is old who didnt care enough to care and prepare for his old age.

NO ONE SHOULD CARE MORE ABOUT YOU, THAN YOU DO.

I will prepare for me. You PREPARE FOR YOU. Hey if conservatives are mean and you are so geneorous give me ohh i dunno, say 30k. Show people how generous you are. I know you wouldnt give me one dollar.

YOU WANT YOU AND YOURS TO BE TAKEN OF BY ME. Then for kicks you want to call this kindness, or fairness, or some GD sillyarse libtard made up name.

Originally Posted by tooslim

My principal problem with conservative politics is that it's a politics of selfishness. The sad thing is that not all conservatives are mean spirited. I firmly believe we live in the best country on earth. I also firmly believe that we can do much better than we are now.

around here janitors start at $16 per hour, and go up to $25 per hour.

I own my own business, i do very dangerous work, i pay about $125 per month. I have very good coverage.

My brother is a builder, also very dangerous, he has major medical only. His payment ... the ungodly sum of $45 per month.

I am not HMO i can go to any doctor i want.

My service is hardly any different than when i was in college and on my moms teachers union BLUE CROSS BLUE shield with all the bells and whistles. The COBRA payments for that were about $400 a months in 2003. I hate to think what they would be now, probably $700.

I pay $125.

That is a lie what you said about your uncle. He didnt buy insurance, he could afford it, he simply had to many other things he bought first.

I assure you he made enough money, he considered health insurance last priority when he was healthy and he was paying. Thats the problem. Lilberals love mid game "re do" .... ok folks ... do over. I dont like the score. Turns out i have cancer i would like to just sign up for insurance now please.

Selfishness. How is me keeping mine selfish, and you wanting yours and mine not selfish.

Again. Thanks for meeting your per page quota of hipocracy.

Your 62 year old uncle in law, lived through the most propersous times in all of man kind, in the richest country in the world. Yet he is broke. Not really, but you want to play the worlds smallest fiddle when he has cancer.

I assure you he was not lining up topay other bills in his 20s 30s 40s. He surely didnt save the last 40 year or he would have had cash in the bank to buy insurance no problem.

esphogeal cancer huh? He didnt happen to have money for smokes for decades on end did he? hmmmmm ?

[Etta Place]

Originally Posted by LittleDave

Happens at the baby boomer age.

A friend of mine who is older - his wife had two knee replacement surgeries. It cost $56,000.00. His insurance paid for it. If a lot of people are doing that, you can see how high demand may be driving the prices up.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Etta Place

A friend of mine who is older - his wife had two knee replacement surgeries. It cost $56,000.00. His insurance paid for it. If a lot of people are doing that, you can see how high demand may be driving the prices up.

Fear not ... When Obamacare is implemented, these burdens to society will be properly dealt with.

Cast them aside, due to a statistical figure that says they are not worth the investment, as they do not have much time left to contribute to society.

Let them be crippled ... They are NOT worth it.

ALL HAIL THE MESSIAH