American's like intercepting phone calls - Page 5 - XDTalk Forums

NewXD40fun · 01-01-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mengelmar

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

I could not agree more Frank.
Thank President Bush that we have not lost one liberty during his watch.

Tom

I call "bullshit" on this. Please reread your previous posts, especially where you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

Yeah, what about Terrorist rights?

Get the ACLU, Bush violated Terrorist rights, get Prosecutor Fitzgerald on this right now!!

Get movie star, Texas Prosecuter Ronnie Earl on this travesty of justice, we must protect Terrorist Rights....rights are more important than life.

Tom

And I call "bullshit" on your "bullshit". I stand by my statement until you prove me wrong - we have lost NO liberties.

Tom

bd · 01-01-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

Why weren’t you concerned about being ‘scared’ of losing your rights during the reign of President Bill Clinton?

Tom

Name a couple of instances when I should have been concerned.
bd

OK

The Patriot Act Abuse Myth
December 22, 2005

Yesterday, one of the Senate's leading Republican critics of the Patriot Act explained that his opposition wasn't to the security measure itself - but rather to the prospect that it could be abused under future presidents who aren't as respectful of civil liberties as President Bush has been.

That critic, Sen. Larry Craig, mentioned presidential candidate Hillary Clinton by name, asking ominously during an interview with Rush Limbaugh: "Who will be her attorney general, and what might he or she do to your liberties and mine?"

One wonders, however, where Sen. Craig was, along with the rest of the civil liberties crowd, during the eight years prior to the Patriot Act - when civil liberties went out the window with Hillary and her husband actually in charge.

Sen. Craig, for instance, has yet to demand the release of Independent Counsel David Barrett's report - which reportedly documents how the Clintons used the IRS to target their political opponents.

But even without Mr. Barrett's findings, we know that Clinton accusers Billy Dale, Gennifer Flowers, Elizabeth Ward Gracen and Juanita Broaddrick were all targeted by IRS audits.
After turning down an offer to settle her sexual harassment suit against Mr. Clinton, Paula Jones was not only audited - but had her confidential tax returns leaked to the media.

In a Sept. 17, 1997 report, the New York Daily News had no compunction about exploring the details of Jones private IRS return in print.

Apparently oblivious to the massive civil rights violation that he was in the midst of committing, late News columnist Lars Erik Nelson even complained that Jones was profiteering from her lawsuit - based on the fact that she had "reported [her legal] defense fund to the IRS on a Schedule C: 'Profit or Loss From Business (Sole Proprietorship)'."

Outrage from the civil liberties crowd? Zippo.

Neither did the Clintons need the Patriot Act to have 1,100 FBI files shipped over to the White House Counsel's office, where - according to Linda Tripp [whose file was among those requisitioned] - the FBI dossiers where stacked floor-to-ceiling in the office of one-time Hillary crony, Associate White House Counsel Bill Kennedy.
When the Clintons explained that it was all just a "bureaucratic snafu," today's Patriot Act opponents bought their laughably transparent excuse hook, line and sinker.

The civil liberties brigade was also AWOL when Hillary's advance man admitted that he regularly recruited "goon squads" to stifle protesters at events where she spoke during her 2000 Senate campaign.

"Less genteel souls sometimes referred to them as goon squads," wrote Patrick Halley in his 2003 memoir, "On the Road with Hillary." "But I objected to that term. I was proud of the fact that not one of them had ever been arrested."

Halley unabashedly recalled that whenever an anti-Hillary protest looked likely, he'd "sprinkle" his goons throughout the crowd "so there was always someone able to respond quickly."

He said his enforcers "could certainly be intimidating if the occasion called for it," lamenting: "Sadly, but inevitably, things sometimes got a little frisky."

Nowhere in Halley's book does he describe how the Patriot Act allowed Mrs. Clinton's campaign to get away with roughing up protesters - probably because at the time Halley was working crowd control for the then-first lady, it wasn't on the books yet.

The lesson here is simple: If the American people insist on electing candidates with a clear inclination to abuse power, it's a fair bet power will be abused once they get in office - regardless of whatever safeguards built into the legal system.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...2/111526.shtml

Can you document your past concerns for the Clinton era abuse of civil liberties?

Of course not.

Tom

Is there any way the abuse of the Constitution you cited can affect me now?

I didn't think so.

Like I said the best defense the Bush apologists have is ex-president Clinton. You cannot defend Bush on his own merit. It all goes back to Clinton.

Let us continue with the discussion of what's going on now.

And it all boils down to this.....
You want the government to protect you.

You don't want to give a dime out for welfare, it's not the government's job. You don't want children to get free medical care, it's not the government's job.

But when you are so scared that you are willing to forfeit the rights that this country was founded on, who are you crying for????

The government.

You need to get on one side or the other, this fence jumping is getting ridiculous.

bd

It appears that a big GOTCHA is in order here bd.

You asked for proof of Liberal President Clinton’s rights violations and I let you have it.

What does welfare and medical care for children, that you just now brought up, have to do with this subject and your answer to my simple question?

You exposed yourself as approving of President Clinton’s rights violations.

Instead of facts and logic you are attacking our President purely because of your apparent liberal, Bush-hating views.

Gotcha.

Got any sillier, liberal extremist web-site cartoons to match your vacuous reasoning?

Tom

Why should I pay any attention to fact when you never have?

Just how scared are you, anyway?

bd

mengelmar · 01-01-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank_XD9SC

If saving lives were always more important than rights, we would not have a United State of America in the first place. We would never have fought the American Revolutionary War, or any war since.

This is part of the post with which you "could not agree more". You previously expressed the opinion that lives are more important than rights in a post that I quoted in my reply. These two statements are at direct odds with one another. Which is it? I wish people would take the time to read all the posts in these threads, especially in the political section.

NewXD40fun · 01-01-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mengelmar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank_XD9SC

If saving lives were always more important than rights, we would not have a United State of America in the first place. We would never have fought the American Revolutionary War, or any war since.

This is part of the post with which you "could not agree more". You previously expressed the opinion that lives are more important than rights in a post that I quoted in my reply. These two statements are at direct odds with one another. Which is it? I wish people would take the time to read all the posts in these threads, especially in the political section.

My previous "Terrorists Rights"/"lives are more important than rights” post was an ironic and sarcastic political statement. If it did not come off as such then I goofed....sorry.

We fought the Revolutionary War because we had few rights. We won our rights by killing the English and English loyalists. So I guess it is ok to take away someone's rights sometimes right?

And I repeat, whose liberties have been abrogated by the Liberal/Democrat charge of Bush taking away our civil rights?

Tom

Delija · 01-01-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd

Why should I pay any attention to fact when you never have?

Just how scared are you, anyway?

bd

I see no difference between the Taliban and the kind of theocracy XD40Funnygun seems to endorse.

Hundreds of thousands of American soldiers fought and died to protect our Constitution. XDFunny seems to believe it was all a waste of lives and blood, sweat and tears.

XDFunny, besides sounding like a broken record with his non-sequitors and mind boggling repetition really seems to believe in two things.

1)An all powerful and infallible head of state who answers only to his personally chosen and named "Higher Authority" (as in Bush's claim that "God told me to invade Iraq")

And

2)A complete disregard for the rights of American citizens with whom he disagrees.

He clearly and very specifically has indicated on hundreds (perhaps thousands?) of occasions right here that he has no use at all for the First Amendment - any "redress of grievances" makes one a "traitor" in his "Bizarro World" version of a Utopian government.

All of which thankfully means nothing since he is so completely un-representative of what any reasonable and self thinking American is like.

There will always be parrots like XD40Funny. There will never be enough to make a difference. Americans will keep America free. And not by using the tactics of hysteria and fear the right wing extremists seem to rely on so heavily. You can only fool some of the people some of the time.

Peace,
D.

Mike TRT · 01-01-2006, 11:08 PM

BD, I am not affraid, Im a realist, if you think its over, your not thinking clearly........Ive been running some of these investigations for 5 years. Obviously no details, for obvious reasons.....not moving anywhere, my rights arent being violated (nor are yours). I only bring up clinton because it was brought up earlier in the thread. Bush is no comparison to that moron.......not that W is the sharpest tool in the shed (DC) but he did what good leaders do, surrounded himself with good people, and I know, some havent been "all that good" but **** happens. I actually cringe at the thought of what this country would be doing if Gore or Kerry were in charge......might as well just turn it over to that loser Mike Moore and Barbra Streisand..........

Bush didnt invade Iraq, the USA did and it was supported by Congress and the american people, the only people that didnt like it was the Iraq gvmnt and the useless UN. we didnt invade because of oil, revenge or 9-11....... a billion UN violations not allowing inspections etc. There were WMD, its a fact, the gas, and nerve agents, the uranium rods and purification elements for it. not to mention the convoys of trucks heading to Syria weeks before we moved in........

you liberal folks have your opinions and thats great, vote and get your guys in the white house. like I said earlier, you guys cant have it both ways, but thats how dems always want it...... you ***** when DC tries to protect with the "alleged" spying, so if they stop and we get attacked, you'll ***** they didnt do anything to protect you. You always pull out the constitution and wave it around saying "our nation was founded on this", then in the next breath you want God off our money, God outta the courthouses, God outta the schools, (all things from the same era when we were founded) banning of CD's with bad language (get rid of that first ammendmaent), its always the same, *****, *****, *****....... and give away the country, cut cia funding, slash the intel community to the bone, cut the military budget, make us a weaker nation and we got whacked, nice going dems... where do I sign up for that again??

**einheit 13** · 01-01-2006, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Ive been running some of these investigations for 5 years.

I hope this doesn't mean you work for the FBI, I'm guessing by the "TRT".
I'd really hate to think that some board members are part of that organization....Well at least as field agent, that is. This isn't an attack on you at all so please don't be offended, i just don't like those guys at all.

jdavionic · 01-01-2006, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by einheit 13

Quote:

Ive been running some of these investigations for 5 years.

I hope this doesn't mean you work for the FBI, I'm guessing by the "TRT".
I'd really hate to think that some board members are part of that organization....Well at least as field agent, that is. This isn't an attack on you at all so please don't be offended, i just don't like those guys at all.

I'm probably misinterpretting your comment. When you say "part of that organization", I'm not sure what you mean. The "guys on the street" are ultimately carrying out most of these activities.

MikeTRT - with respect to your comments, well said. I appreciate the efforts of trying to get stop terrorist activities before they succeed in implementing a plan. I believe our president when he states who & why folks have been targeted. Despite 911, folks seem to still think that we are not at war.

**einheit 13** · 01-01-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike TRT

you ***** when DC tries to protect with the "alleged" spying, so if they stop and we get attacked, you'll ***** they didnt do anything to protect you. You always pull out the constitution and wave it around saying "our nation was founded on this", then in the next breath you want God off our money, God outta the courthouses, God outta the schools, (all things from the same era when we were founded) banning of CD's with bad language (get rid of that first ammendmaent), its always the same, *****, *****, *****....... and give away the country, cut cia funding, slash the intel community to the bone, cut the military budget, make us a weaker nation and we got whacked, nice going dems... where do I sign up for that again??

So whens the last time the US Government acted to protect my rights and freedoms?? Whens the last ANY US soldier took up arms to protect my rights and freedoms that i couldn't do myself?? Whens the last time the US Government made an effort to stem the flow of illegals?? Whens the last time Pres has made a speach without using the word God?? Whens the last time any military has ever fought and won against an ideal??
People "***** whine and moan" because one party wants the Government to be omnipotent and controll everything in our lives. Then when the other party does that very thing, its the end of the world. Make up your minds people. I just don't understand it at all....you are all sheep to the slaughter. I don't trust none of them.

**einheit 13** · 01-01-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdavionic

Quote:

Originally Posted by einheit 13

Quote:

Ive been running some of these investigations for 5 years.

I hope this doesn't mean you work for the FBI, I'm guessing by the "TRT".
I'd really hate to think that some board members are part of that organization....Well at least as field agent, that is. This isn't an attack on you at all so please don't be offended, i just don't like those guys at all.

I'm probably misinterpretting your comment. When you say "part of that organization", I'm not sure what you mean. The "guys on the street" are ultimately carrying out most of these activities.

MikeTRT - with respect to your comments, well said. I appreciate the efforts of trying to get stop terrorist activities before they succeed in implementing a plan. I believe our president when he states who & why folks have been targeted. Despite 911, folks seem to still think that we are not at war.

Let me clarify, sorry, its the "pencil pushers" I don't like, the guys in the streets know whats really going on....

01-01-2006, 11:08 PM	#46
Mike TRT XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,432	BD, I am not affraid, Im a realist, if you think its over, your not thinking clearly........Ive been running some of these investigations for 5 years. Obviously no details, for obvious reasons.....not moving anywhere, my rights arent being violated (nor are yours). I only bring up clinton because it was brought up earlier in the thread. Bush is no comparison to that moron.......not that W is the sharpest tool in the shed (DC) but he did what good leaders do, surrounded himself with good people, and I know, some havent been "all that good" but ** happens. I actually cringe at the thought of what this country would be doing if Gore or Kerry were in charge......might as well just turn it over to that loser Mike Moore and Barbra Streisand.......... Bush didnt invade Iraq, the USA did and it was supported by Congress and the american people, the only people that didnt like it was the Iraq gvmnt and the useless UN. we didnt invade because of oil, revenge or 9-11....... a billion UN violations not allowing inspections etc. There were WMD, its a fact, the gas, and nerve agents, the uranium rods and purification elements for it. not to mention the convoys of trucks heading to Syria weeks before we moved in........ you liberal folks have your opinions and thats great, vote and get your guys in the white house. like I said earlier, you guys cant have it both ways, but thats how dems always want it...... you * when DC tries to protect with the "alleged" spying, so if they stop and we get attacked, you'll * they didnt do anything to protect you. You always pull out the constitution and wave it around saying "our nation was founded on this", then in the next breath you want God off our money, God outta the courthouses, God outta the schools, (all things from the same era when we were founded) banning of CD's with bad language (get rid of that first ammendmaent), its always the same, *, *, ***....... and give away the country, cut cia funding, slash the intel community to the bone, cut the military budget, make us a weaker nation and we got whacked, nice going dems... where do I sign up for that again?? __________________ \"There is no hunting like the hunting of a man. And those who have hunted men long enough and liked it never cared for anything else thereafter.\"
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