American's like intercepting phone calls

[bd]

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

Why weren’t you concerned about being ‘scared’ of losing your rights during the reign of President Bill Clinton?

Tom

Name a couple of instances when I should have been concerned.

bd

[NewXD40fun]

Originally Posted by bd

Name a couple of instances when I should have been concerned.

bd

OK

The Patriot Act Abuse Myth
December 22, 2005

Yesterday, one of the Senate's leading Republican critics of the Patriot Act explained that his opposition wasn't to the security measure itself - but rather to the prospect that it could be abused under future presidents who aren't as respectful of civil liberties as President Bush has been.

That critic, Sen. Larry Craig, mentioned presidential candidate Hillary Clinton by name, asking ominously during an interview with Rush Limbaugh: "Who will be her attorney general, and what might he or she do to your liberties and mine?"

One wonders, however, where Sen. Craig was, along with the rest of the civil liberties crowd, during the eight years prior to the Patriot Act - when civil liberties went out the window with Hillary and her husband actually in charge.

Sen. Craig, for instance, has yet to demand the release of Independent Counsel David Barrett's report - which reportedly documents how the Clintons used the IRS to target their political opponents.

But even without Mr. Barrett's findings, we know that Clinton accusers Billy Dale, Gennifer Flowers, Elizabeth Ward Gracen and Juanita Broaddrick were all targeted by IRS audits.
After turning down an offer to settle her sexual harassment suit against Mr. Clinton, Paula Jones was not only audited - but had her confidential tax returns leaked to the media.

In a Sept. 17, 1997 report, the New York Daily News had no compunction about exploring the details of Jones private IRS return in print.

Apparently oblivious to the massive civil rights violation that he was in the midst of committing, late News columnist Lars Erik Nelson even complained that Jones was profiteering from her lawsuit - based on the fact that she had "reported [her legal] defense fund to the IRS on a Schedule C: 'Profit or Loss From Business (Sole Proprietorship)'."

Outrage from the civil liberties crowd? Zippo.

Neither did the Clintons need the Patriot Act to have 1,100 FBI files shipped over to the White House Counsel's office, where - according to Linda Tripp [whose file was among those requisitioned] - the FBI dossiers where stacked floor-to-ceiling in the office of one-time Hillary crony, Associate White House Counsel Bill Kennedy.
When the Clintons explained that it was all just a "bureaucratic snafu," today's Patriot Act opponents bought their laughably transparent excuse hook, line and sinker.

The civil liberties brigade was also AWOL when Hillary's advance man admitted that he regularly recruited "goon squads" to stifle protesters at events where she spoke during her 2000 Senate campaign.

"Less genteel souls sometimes referred to them as goon squads," wrote Patrick Halley in his 2003 memoir, "On the Road with Hillary." "But I objected to that term. I was proud of the fact that not one of them had ever been arrested."

Halley unabashedly recalled that whenever an anti-Hillary protest looked likely, he'd "sprinkle" his goons throughout the crowd "so there was always someone able to respond quickly."

He said his enforcers "could certainly be intimidating if the occasion called for it," lamenting: "Sadly, but inevitably, things sometimes got a little frisky."

Nowhere in Halley's book does he describe how the Patriot Act allowed Mrs. Clinton's campaign to get away with roughing up protesters - probably because at the time Halley was working crowd control for the then-first lady, it wasn't on the books yet.

The lesson here is simple: If the American people insist on electing candidates with a clear inclination to abuse power, it's a fair bet power will be abused once they get in office - regardless of whatever safeguards built into the legal system.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...2/111526.shtml


Can you document your past concerns for the Clinton era abuse of civil liberties?

Of course not.


Tom

[Frank_XD9SC]

To those on this board who seem to value their own sense of security over the rights and freedoms won with the blood of countless Americans, I would offer this statement:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

If saving lives were always more important than rights, we would not have a United State of America in the first place. We would never have fought the American Revolutionary War, or any war since.

George W. Bush is not America. He is one politician. Support your country and defend your constitution first, and politicians you like second. If you don't, you are as much a threat to American freedom as any terrorist.

[NewXD40fun]

I could not agree more Frank.


Thank President Bush that we have not lost one liberty during his watch.


Tom

[bd]

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

OK

The Patriot Act Abuse Myth
December 22, 2005

Yesterday, one of the Senate's leading Republican critics of the Patriot Act explained that his opposition wasn't to the security measure itself - but rather to the prospect that it could be abused under future presidents who aren't as respectful of civil liberties as President Bush has been.

That critic, Sen. Larry Craig, mentioned presidential candidate Hillary Clinton by name, asking ominously during an interview with Rush Limbaugh: "Who will be her attorney general, and what might he or she do to your liberties and mine?"

One wonders, however, where Sen. Craig was, along with the rest of the civil liberties crowd, during the eight years prior to the Patriot Act - when civil liberties went out the window with Hillary and her husband actually in charge.

Sen. Craig, for instance, has yet to demand the release of Independent Counsel David Barrett's report - which reportedly documents how the Clintons used the IRS to target their political opponents.

But even without Mr. Barrett's findings, we know that Clinton accusers Billy Dale, Gennifer Flowers, Elizabeth Ward Gracen and Juanita Broaddrick were all targeted by IRS audits.
After turning down an offer to settle her sexual harassment suit against Mr. Clinton, Paula Jones was not only audited - but had her confidential tax returns leaked to the media.

In a Sept. 17, 1997 report, the New York Daily News had no compunction about exploring the details of Jones private IRS return in print.

Apparently oblivious to the massive civil rights violation that he was in the midst of committing, late News columnist Lars Erik Nelson even complained that Jones was profiteering from her lawsuit - based on the fact that she had "reported [her legal] defense fund to the IRS on a Schedule C: 'Profit or Loss From Business (Sole Proprietorship)'."

Outrage from the civil liberties crowd? Zippo.

Neither did the Clintons need the Patriot Act to have 1,100 FBI files shipped over to the White House Counsel's office, where - according to Linda Tripp [whose file was among those requisitioned] - the FBI dossiers where stacked floor-to-ceiling in the office of one-time Hillary crony, Associate White House Counsel Bill Kennedy.
When the Clintons explained that it was all just a "bureaucratic snafu," today's Patriot Act opponents bought their laughably transparent excuse hook, line and sinker.

The civil liberties brigade was also AWOL when Hillary's advance man admitted that he regularly recruited "goon squads" to stifle protesters at events where she spoke during her 2000 Senate campaign.

"Less genteel souls sometimes referred to them as goon squads," wrote Patrick Halley in his 2003 memoir, "On the Road with Hillary." "But I objected to that term. I was proud of the fact that not one of them had ever been arrested."

Halley unabashedly recalled that whenever an anti-Hillary protest looked likely, he'd "sprinkle" his goons throughout the crowd "so there was always someone able to respond quickly."

He said his enforcers "could certainly be intimidating if the occasion called for it," lamenting: "Sadly, but inevitably, things sometimes got a little frisky."

Nowhere in Halley's book does he describe how the Patriot Act allowed Mrs. Clinton's campaign to get away with roughing up protesters - probably because at the time Halley was working crowd control for the then-first lady, it wasn't on the books yet.

The lesson here is simple: If the American people insist on electing candidates with a clear inclination to abuse power, it's a fair bet power will be abused once they get in office - regardless of whatever safeguards built into the legal system.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...2/111526.shtml


Can you document your past concerns for the Clinton era abuse of civil liberties?

Of course not.


Tom

Is there any way the abuse of the Constitution you cited can affect me now?

I didn't think so.

Like I said the best defense the Bush apologists have is ex-president Clinton. You cannot defend Bush on his own merit. It all goes back to Clinton.

Let us continue with the discussion of what's going on now.

And it all boils down to this.....



You want the government to protect you.

You don't want to give a dime out for welfare, it's not the government's job. You don't want children to get free medical care, it's not the government's job.

But when you are so scared that you are willing to forfeit the rights that this country was founded on, who are you crying for????

The government.

You need to get on one side or the other, this fence jumping is getting ridiculous.

bd

[NewXD40fun]

Originally Posted by bd

Is there any way the abuse of the Constitution you cited can affect me now?

I didn't think so.

Like I said the best defense the Bush apologists have is ex-president Clinton. You cannot defend Bush on his own merit. It all goes back to Clinton.

Let us continue with the discussion of what's going on now.

And it all boils down to this.....
You want the government to protect you.

You don't want to give a dime out for welfare, it's not the government's job. You don't want children to get free medical care, it's not the government's job.

But when you are so scared that you are willing to forfeit the rights that this country was founded on, who are you crying for????

The government.

You need to get on one side or the other, this fence jumping is getting ridiculous.

bd

It appears that a big GOTCHA is in order here bd.

You asked for proof of Liberal President Clinton’s rights violations and I let you have it.

What does welfare and medical care for children, that you just now brought up, have to do with this subject and your answer to my simple question?

You exposed yourself as approving of President Clinton’s rights violations.

Instead of facts and logic you are attacking our President purely because of your apparent liberal, Bush-hating views.

Gotcha.

Got any sillier, liberal extremist web-site cartoons to match your vacuous reasoning?


Tom

[mengelmar]

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

I could not agree more Frank.


Thank President Bush that we have not lost one liberty during his watch.


Tom

I call "bullshit" on this. Please reread your previous posts, especially where you said:

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

Yeah, what about Terrorist rights?

Get the ACLU, Bush violated Terrorist rights, get Prosecutor Fitzgerald on this right now!!

Get movie star, Texas Prosecuter Ronnie Earl on this travesty of justice, we must protect Terrorist Rights....rights are more important than life.






Tom

At least be consistent. Thanks Frank for more clearly stating what I attempted to say in my earlier post and doing the topic the justice it deserves.

[one-eyed-fatman]

Originally Posted by NewXD40fun

I could not agree more Frank.


Thank President Bush that we have not lost one liberty during his watch.


Tom

Funnygun did you not get this part?

George W. Bush is not America. He is one politician. Support your country and defend your constitution first, and politicians you like second. If you don't, you are as much a threat to American freedom as any terrorist.

Apparently not.

[einheit 13]

Support your country and defend your constitution first, and politicians you like second.

If i did this, then most if not all the politicians would be dead......

[one-eyed-fatman]

Well they are the ones who are trying to take our rights from us.