In Praise of the 10mm

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by lobster_roboto

I think a Ferrari is the best car on the planet...

I wonder why I don't see millions of those driving around?

We think alike. Sorry. Didn't see your post.

[englandcrown]

Originally Posted by MisterB

For years, the Ford Taurus was the best selling car in the U.S. Does that make it a superior car to other available cars? Absolutely not, LOL. I really like the .45 round, and I own an XD45, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the power of the 10mm round.

I have a Ford Taurus AND an XD45. They are the best cars and guns around.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by englandcrown

I have a Ford Taurus AND an XD45. They are the best cars and guns around.

Damn, you just managed to really insult the XD line

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by Joeywhat

That's a moot argument due to the large price difference between that and, say, a Corvette. There is not such a large difference in cost between a 10mm and any other round...and there is realistically no cost difference in terms of guns (and you can't really make a comparison in that sense, anyways).

At the end of the day, a 10mm is very much in the realm of affordability for most people. You can't say it's not popular because of the huge premiums you pay for ammunition.

Are you kidding? Have you actually priced 10mm ammo lately? Sure, buying small quantities of +P carry rounds might be pretty close between all rounds, but if you want to shoot your gun at something other than a bad guy- 9mm is less than HALF as expensive as 10mm target loads.

[englandcrown]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Damn, you just managed to really insult the XD line

Looks like you just did the insulting. Do you see me making fun of your car? I do what I can pal. Thanks.

[mcb]

Originally Posted by Northalius

Whatever you say, but people easily exceed SAAMI all the time when they reload 10mm and have no problems. As long as the barrel has good support for the case, and the person actually knows how to load bullets well, there'll be no problems. Like I already said, there're guys loading their 10mm to fly in at 1830 fps, and have no problems with it.

This works for any cartridge if your willing to take the chance. Guys with T/C Encore and Ruger Blackhawk have pushed the big three revolver cartridge well pass SAAMI spec. So if you your going to try and compare over-spec 10mm to these cartridges its only fair we did up some data for the other cartridges that has been pushed beyond SAAMI spec. Trust me a 44 Magnum in an T/C Encore pistol will make a 10mm look like a 22LR if some one really pushes the actual strength of that action to its limits.

My challenge remains. Find data for 10mm Auto that is within SAAMI specification and generates more than 750ft-lbs of energy. I can produce data for the 357, 41 and 44 Mag that are will generate over 1000ft-lbs and still be within SAAMI spec. The 10mm Auto is a good cartridge but does not out perform the big three revolve cartridges when it come to muzzle energy. It simple does not have the case volume to compete.

The anti 10mm-fanboy
mcb

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by englandcrown

Looks like you just did the insulting. Do you see me making fun of your car? I do what I can pal. Thanks.

Oh, man- you really don't want me to tell you what I drive. It'd only make you feel worse...

But, hey- at least we can both agree that XD's are great...

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by mcb

This works for any cartridge if your willing to take the chance. Guys with T/C Encore and Ruger Blackhawk have pushed the big three revolver cartridge well pass SAAMI spec. So if you your going to try and compare over-spec 10mm to these cartridges its only fair we did up some data for the other cartridges that has been pushed beyond SAAMI spec. Trust me a 44 Magnum in an T/C Encore pistol will make a 10mm look like a 22LR if some one really pushes the actual strength of that action to its limits.

My challenge remains. Find data for 10mm Auto that is within SAAMI specification and generates more than 750ft-lbs of energy. I can produce data for the 357, 41 and 44 Mag that are will generate over 1000ft-lbs and still be within SAAMI spec. The 10mm Auto is a good cartridge but does not out perform the big three revolve cartridges when it come to muzzle energy. It simple does not have the case volume to compete.

The anti 10mm-fanboy
mcb

Again, you're still missing the point. The 44 mag round is as powerful as it is, becaue the shell casings are so damn long. Because of this, you need to fire them from a revolver. You've suddenly gone from a relatively small and light 10mm gun with 17 in the oven, to a long, heavy, clunky revolver with only 6 rounds. Reloading is also a pain in the ass, and slow. Speed loaders take up too much space.

You simply have to look at the big picture when analyzing a round. A powerful 44 mag does you absolutely no good if you leave it in the truck because you can't stand carrying it, and feel that 6 rounds isn't enough.

Where does it end, if we continue to apply your narrow minded logic? Why not try to instead convince us to all carry a civil war cannon in the woods. Hell, talk about one shot stopping power...

[philbo]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Again, you're still missing the point. The 44 mag round is as powerful as it is, becaue the shell casings are so damn long. Because of this, you need to fire them from a revolver. You've suddenly gone from a relatively small and light 10mm gun with 17 in the oven, to a long, heavy, clunky revolver with only 6 rounds. Reloading is also a pain in the ass, and slow. Speed loaders take up too much space.

You simply have to look at the big picture when analyzing a round. A powerful 44 mag does you absolutely no good if you leave it in the truck because you can't stand carrying it, and feel that 6 rounds isn't enough.

Where does it end, if we continue to apply your narrow minded logic? Why not try to instead convince us to all carry a civil war cannon in the woods. Hell, talk about one shot stopping power...

Actually, I don't think you're making a point here. mcb has never said you shouldn't carry a 10mm if that's what your comfortable with. What he has tried to point out is that for hunting, the 10mm falls short compared to the big bore revolvers in power and penetration. Fast reloads and high mag capacity mean little to the hunter, hence the lag in popularity of the 10mm in that field. For self defense, if one chooses the 10mm, it is again a solid choice, but many do not see the added recoil and penetration of the full 10mm load as offering any advantage. In fact, many feel that slower follow up shots because of that extra power may actually be a detriment when choosing a self defense caliber. The 40S&W is at least one caliber that provides all of the advantages of the reduced 10mm self defense load and does so in an even smaller, more concealable package. This explains the 10mm's lack of popularity among self defense shooters. The 10mm is a great cartridge, but it's not the panacea for all shooters you and the OP would make it out to be.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by philbo

Actually, I don't think you're making a point here. mcb has never said you shouldn't carry a 10mm if that's what your comfortable with. What he has tried to point out is that for hunting, the 10mm falls short compared to the big bore revolvers in power and penetration. Fast reloads and high mag capacity mean little to the hunter, hence the lag in popularity of the 10mm in that field. For self defense, if one chooses the 10mm, it is again a solid choice, but many do not see the added recoil and penetration of the full 10mm load as offering any advantage. In fact, many feel that slower follow up shots because of that extra power may actually be a detriment when choosing a self defense caliber. The 40S&W is at least one caliber that provides all of the advantages of the reduced 10mm self defense load and does so in an even smaller, more concealable package. This explains the 10mm's lack of popularity among self defense shooters. The 10mm is a great cartridge, but it's not the panacea for all shooters you and the OP would make it out to be.

Sounds like you enjoy putting words in everyone's mouths.

Actually, he didn't just say the 10mm was not good for hunting. He's gone on to say BS, like "they are for mall ninjas", etc.

It's laughable how you have praised the .40 for "providing all the advantages of the reduced 10mm load". That means absolutely nothing. It's like saying a V6 engine provides all the advantages of a V8 that is only firing on 6 cylinders.

I like the 10mm round. I also like the .45, the 9mm, and even the .380 for certain situations. I've never said it is the "panacea for all shooters". I'm simply saying to keep an open mind and look at the big picture.