Trying to find a very accurate rifle - need suggestions

[ormandj]

Hi,

I'm looking for a tack-driver rifle, preferably in .308/7.62x51 nato. (This isn't a must if you have a better suggestion for something that is obtainable. I thought about .338 Lapua, but it is VERY expensive - both ammunition and rifles. I've also heard it's not allowed when competing in NRA long range competition, which is something I'd probably want to get into eventually.)

Here's my list of "requirements", if you will:

#1 - Extremely durable. It has to work in nasty environments. This is a requirement I have for *all* of my guns (and tools for that matter), because I don't see the point in a showpiece, they are tools. I'm doing a lot of hiking/camping/etc lately, and intend on hunting in the future, and my gear is getting beat on pretty hard.

#2 - Bolt action. This goes with the above. I've already got an M4 for the semi-auto, so that facet is covered. If you feel there is a semi-auto option that's as durable/accurate as the bolt action, I'd be open to it.

#3 - Accurate. 1MOA or better would be ideal. I'd like it to be a very accurate rifle, stock. Even better if I can upgrade/have it worked on down the road to be more accurate (without influencing #1.) I realize I could probably buy a $5k rifle now and have it about as accurate as the caliber/shooter can shoot, but this leads to #4...

#4 - Not obscenely expensive. I don't want to budget $5k to a rifle. It's a tool, not a diamond. Unfortunately, I don't know the point of diminishing returns when it comes to this type of rifle. How much should I expect to spend for a rifle that will last (hopefully) my lifetime, and be very accurate?
I realize everybody has a different opinion of what reasonable is, so I'm looking for the point in $$$ at which spending a fair more returns very little additional accuracy.

Now, with that out of the way, I'd like something with a synthetic stock (durability reasons) and ideally something that'll allow me to attach a folding bi-pod. Also, things like fluted barrels and such (weight-related optimizations) are quite welcome (assuming they don't impact durability/accuracy) as it will be carried long distances on foot when hiking/hunting/etc.

I very much appreciate any input you can give me, I'm asking here instead of a rifle forum because I've talked with a lot of you and have been impressed with your logic, feedback, and willingness to help, so I trust your opinions a lot more.

Cheers,
David

[ormandj]

Update: I was browsing around and saw the Steyr Tactical Elite in .308. Looks like a reasonable price and fairly good accuracy, while being durable and light (even has integrated bi-pod.) Any other suggestions? Any thoughts on this particular rifle?

[aubie515]

Based on the above points, I'd say Savage, Remington, Winchester.

Savage 10FPs are very accurate out of the box. Savage offers McMillan and HS stocks for those rifles. Great starter rifle and you can have Fred tweak your rifle if you wish. The only big complaint I have against Savage is the poor action. I have owned two 10FPs and while they shot well, the action felt like SH&T.

Remington SPS Varmint, VS, LTR, 700P and 5R are all good rifles. The SPS Varmint is probably the best bang for the buck if you want a donor action for mods down the road. I have owned the 700P and currently own the 5R. Very accurate rifles and there are plenty of aftermarket goodies for the 700 action.

Winchester Stealth I/II if you can find them. I have owned both I/II and can say they are also very accurate rifles.

I almost forgot Howa rifles. I have never owend one, but the action is smooth and they are suppose to be good shooters as well.

ETA: I"ve owned a Steyr SBS Tactical as well. I sold it to my friend because I have too many 308 rifles. My SBS was a limited run since it was offered with a McMillan A3 OD stock. The Steyr was called a heavy barrel, but I'd say it had a sporter contour compared to a true heavy barrel. You can get 10rd mags for the Steyr, but you will need to modify the rifle. You can still use the 5rd mags if you reconfigure the rifle.

[Kaboom]

Remington SPS Varmint, VS, LTR, 700P and 5R are all good rifles. The SPS Varmint is probably the best bang for the buck if you want a donor action for mods down the road. I have owned the 700P and currently own the 5R. Very accurate rifles and there are plenty of aftermarket goodies for the 700 action.

Just want to emphasize aubie515s numbers. NOTICE he states "700" specifically, not 770, 750, 715 etc. The 700 series is the good one, the 7xx are almost like knock-offs, stay away from them.

[ormandj]

Originally Posted by Kaboom

Just want to emphasize aubie515s numbers. NOTICE he states "700" specifically, not 770, 750, 715 etc. The 700 series is the good one, the 7xx are almost like knock-offs, stay away from them.

Thank you (both of you!) I've added those onto my list. I'm starting to think more in-depth about what I'm looking for, I think I was emphasizing accuracy too much, and not utility. 1MOA is plenty accurate for even longer-range hunting (500m) of deer sized targets. Target shooting (competitive long range shooting) looks to be a very expensive hobby, to get the accuracy these guys are w/ your rifle, it looks like you *have* to dump thousands and thousands of dollars into your rifle, and you give up some reliability (ie: what happens if mud gets into it, or you get a non-perfect piece of ammunition) due to the extremely tight tolerances.

I started reading up on the whole "scout" concept, and that's apparently in line with what I'm really looking for. Not that I am stuck on this particular design, I just like the ideas behind it. Reasonably accurate, reasonably portable, and reliable. Good all-around rifle that can be used in many situations for many different purposes.

Keep the input/suggestions coming, I'm making a list and intend on checking them all out as I have time! It's also helping me determine what I'm *really* looking for.

Thanks,
David

[Kaboom]

Don't count out a used 700, bolt guns don't get much wear and for a few $$$ you could build it up into something special and great. LOTS of bolt guns get sold off after deer season check out the auction sites and pawn/gun shops in your area.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by ormandj;998608[B

]#3 - Accurate. 1MOA or better would be ideal. I'd like it to be a very accurate rifle, stock. [/b]

Darn near any bolt action or + $700 dollar Semi-Auto with a full float barrel is gonna exceed this with the right ammo.

But I see as I type this that you have updated your expectations. So ...... What is your price range ???
That should really be the starting point to narow down any suggestions.

FWIW, I've seen Bolt action and AR types shoot sub .3 MOA with the right ammo.

Come up with a price and style. There's a lot of knowledge around this place if you narrow it down some.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Kaboom

Don't count out a used 700, bolt guns don't get much wear and for a few $$$ you could build it up into something special and great. LOTS of bolt guns get sold off after deer season check out the auction sites and pawn/gun shops in your area.

Great point!!
If I wanted a bolt action I'd look for a used one as you suggested. Besides they're hard to abuse unless you let is rust.

[jnclement]

Originally Posted by ormandj

1MOA is plenty accurate for even longer-range hunting (500m) of deer sized targets. Target shooting (competitive long range shooting) looks to be a very expensive hobby, to get the accuracy these guys are w/ your rifle, it looks like you *have* to dump thousands and thousands of dollars into your rifle, and you give up some reliability (ie: what happens if mud gets into it, or you get a non-perfect piece of ammunition) due to the extremely tight tolerances.

Target shooting doesn't have to be expensive. Box stock Savage F-Class rifles took 2 of the top 3 places at the F-Class nationals this year. If you get a Savage, you can dump hundreds of dollars (instead of thousands) into your own gun, in your own garage, with your own hands, when you want. No need to send it off to some overpriced gunsmith. So far, I've re-barreled Savages to 223 Ackley, 338-06, 6.5X55, 270, and 6.5x47 Lapua. Takes about 30 minutes. And they all shoot way better than 1 MOA. Most stock Savages will too. So if you can live with great downrange performance, and some non-orgasmic bolt stroking, you can save a lot of money to put into glass with a Savage.

Also remember, Remington/Savage with have a mulitude more aftermarket parts than a Steyr. As to the Scout rifle concept......maybe if you're a Gunsite grad it makes sense. I sure can't see using one for long range, and they haven't caught on at tactical comps.

[ormandj]

Originally Posted by jnclement

Target shooting doesn't have to be expensive. Box stock Savage F-Class rifles took 2 of the top 3 places at the F-Class nationals this year. If you get a Savage, you can dump hundreds of dollars (instead of thousands) into your own gun, in your own garage, with your own hands, when you want. No need to send it off to some overpriced gunsmith. So far, I've re-barreled Savages to 223 Ackley, 338-06, 6.5X55, 270, and 6.5x47 Lapua. Takes about 30 minutes. And they all shoot way better than 1 MOA. Most stock Savages will too. So if you can live with great downrange performance, and some non-orgasmic bolt stroking, you can save a lot of money to put into glass with a Savage.

Also remember, Remington/Savage with have a mulitude more aftermarket parts than a Steyr. As to the Scout rifle concept......maybe if you're a Gunsite grad it makes sense. I sure can't see using one for long range, and they haven't caught on at tactical comps.

Awesome input! I'm going to check out the savage rifles, I've heard a lot of good things in this thread (and others in searching.) I'm also looking into different calibers, I just watched a show on Discovery (Futureweapons) which I normally don't care for much, but they had 6.5 Grendel on, and it looks pretty darn impressive. The ballistics tables for it also look great, just as accurate (in some cases more) than .308/7.62 nato, ~half the recoil, and it looks like plenty of downrange energy for hunting/etc. Nice.