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hitman · 09-26-2007, 01:05 PM

ok i got into a disagreement last night with a friend while watching tv. i know that they an trace a round back to the barrel it was fired from but what about a shotgun round? i know on a slug they most likely can but i say no way with buckshot or bird shot. anyone care to offer their .02?

tomfoolery · 09-26-2007, 01:09 PM

im pulling out the old course books on bullet patterns and trace patterns. il post in a bit after i find the answer....i dont want to guess on this one lol.

tomfoolery · 09-26-2007, 01:17 PM

directly from the book

"an examiner measures the diameter of any recovered shot and estimates what size shot was used"

"because smoothbore weapons like shotguns and older firearms are not rifled, their projectiles dont exhibit any evidence of markings caused by lands, grooves, or twists"

"unfortunately, an examiner cant get an intact bullet for analysis, more often, severly fragmented pieces."

all this leads me to believe that no, you can not trace shotgun ammo....now if the barrell is rifled for slugs it is more possible....assuming a solid slug is fired AND recovered in tact. hope my .02 is helpful.

dobbsjv · 09-26-2007, 01:17 PM

No way I say, no expert though. Maybe if they found the wad that held the pellets. Don't know though never thought of this.

rogerxd45 · 09-26-2007, 01:32 PM

i think they could match the used case to the gun but if you pick them un then i doubt they could trace the actual "shot" back to any givin gun but they could most likely trace it to a givin ammo company since different companies use different alloys of metal

tomfoolery · 09-26-2007, 01:35 PM

roger, that is correct...from my learnings lol. the only thing tracing it back to an ammo company does is give you circumstantial evidence (if there is more of that particular ammo located with someone you assumed as a suspect)...but even then its not solid.

so hitman....are you planning a hit or what?

bigun · 09-26-2007, 01:36 PM

Not the shot but a slug or a wad could give a couple of clues. A rifled shotgun barrel would be no differant than a rifle or pistol, The lands and groves are differant for each barrel. And a recovered empty hull will provide the same info as a fired rifle or pistol case.

hitman · 09-26-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfoolery

so hitman....are you planning a hit or what?

thanks guys!

bscman · 09-26-2007, 01:41 PM

Yup scatter guns and .22 rimfires are both very hard to to trace.

The first being because it's rare there will be shot recovered that will have any unique, identifying marks like would be found on a typical plated handgun/rifle round.
The empty hull would shop breech face/firing pin/extractor impressions, however.

The .22's are so hard because they are typically made of a very soft lead, so most/all the unique identifying marks are distorted or "erased" entirely. Of course, this is only true if it hits something fairly hard at a high rate of speed.

tomfoolery · 09-26-2007, 01:43 PM

most gun related homicides are comitted with a .22 caliber bullet....food for thought.

09-26-2007, 01:05 PM	#1
hitman XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 116	ballistics ok i got into a disagreement last night with a friend while watching tv. i know that they an trace a round back to the barrel it was fired from but what about a shotgun round? i know on a slug they most likely can but i say no way with buckshot or bird shot. anyone care to offer their .02?

09-26-2007, 01:36 PM	#7
bigun XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southern Iowa Posts: 2,707	Not the shot but a slug or a wad could give a couple of clues. A rifled shotgun barrel would be no differant than a rifle or pistol, The lands and groves are differant for each barrel. And a recovered empty hull will provide the same info as a fired rifle or pistol case. __________________ Springfield Loaded Stainless,Kimber Pro CDP 2, Kimber Custom Target, Beretta 92D Centurions x2, 92FS, SIG 229 SAS, CZ75, and several other weapons that give Liberals nightmares.

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09-26-2007, 01:09 PM	#2
tomfoolery XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 4,565	im pulling out the old course books on bullet patterns and trace patterns. il post in a bit after i find the answer....i dont want to guess on this one lol.

09-26-2007, 01:17 PM	#3
tomfoolery XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 4,565	directly from the book "an examiner measures the diameter of any recovered shot and estimates what size shot was used" "because smoothbore weapons like shotguns and older firearms are not rifled, their projectiles dont exhibit any evidence of markings caused by lands, grooves, or twists" "unfortunately, an examiner cant get an intact bullet for analysis, more often, severly fragmented pieces." all this leads me to believe that no, you can not trace shotgun ammo....now if the barrell is rifled for slugs it is more possible....assuming a solid slug is fired AND recovered in tact. hope my .02 is helpful.

09-26-2007, 01:17 PM	#4
dobbsjv XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: alabama Posts: 179	No way I say, no expert though. Maybe if they found the wad that held the pellets. Don't know though never thought of this.

09-26-2007, 01:32 PM	#5
rogerxd45 XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: boise ID (its boy-see, not boy-z) Posts: 3,592	i think they could match the used case to the gun but if you pick them un then i doubt they could trace the actual "shot" back to any givin gun but they could most likely trace it to a givin ammo company since different companies use different alloys of metal

09-26-2007, 01:35 PM	#6
tomfoolery XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 4,565	roger, that is correct...from my learnings lol. the only thing tracing it back to an ammo company does is give you circumstantial evidence (if there is more of that particular ammo located with someone you assumed as a suspect)...but even then its not solid. so hitman....are you planning a hit or what?

09-26-2007, 01:41 PM	#9
bscman XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 142	Yup scatter guns and .22 rimfires are both very hard to to trace. The first being because it's rare there will be shot recovered that will have any unique, identifying marks like would be found on a typical plated handgun/rifle round. The empty hull would shop breech face/firing pin/extractor impressions, however. The .22's are so hard because they are typically made of a very soft lead, so most/all the unique identifying marks are distorted or "erased" entirely. Of course, this is only true if it hits something fairly hard at a high rate of speed.

09-26-2007, 01:43 PM	#10
tomfoolery XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 4,565	most gun related homicides are comitted with a .22 caliber bullet....food for thought.