Point Shooting Progressions Class Review (vids) - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

**Bycyclist** · 09-10-2007, 08:34 PM

Had a great weekend learning from Roger Phillips, one of Suarez International's staff instructors, learning point shooting/close distance combat shooting this weekend in Reno!

In summary, this class was very organized and well-taught, with truly a "progression" of skills/drills, albeit fast-paced, moving through the point shooting continuum. We covered a multiple range of skills - movement, indexing, etc. I think this was the "missing" link for my shooting continuum skills, as I've had quite a bit training in the sighted fire methods (see previous reviews on Burkett, Jarrett, TR).

For 5yds. and less, this was truly natural and fast, and easily/readily learned. As far as accuracy? No problems getting 5" groups and less, even on a run. The movement drills made a great deal of sense as well, and seemed to flow naturally from my previous movement skills. The "S" drill was particularly challenging stuff and revealed some strengths and weaknesses in my approach/problem solving (see vid below).

So yes, now I'm a believer in the point shooting stuff - just another tool in the box for self-defense.

Here are a few of the drills:

First is 12oclock towards a BG then off angle, although you couldn't see the target.
http://www.youtube.com/v/fV-Y5ip_GOY

Second is getting off the "X" then launching towards the BG, approaching at oblique angle.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...07491969&hl=en

Final is the infamous "S-Drill" or at least the first two calls from Roger. This was a long 60 rd count drill that put everything together we learned in class. Probably the best self-defense shooting drill I've ever participated! BG #4 was tight head shot to neutralize so I realize it looked stupid to stand up, but that was how I got a clear shot from where I was. Also, the parameter to this callout/stage was "way behind reaction curve"- hence the big duck and swing around. Yes, I know I fumbled the draw - but I did manage to recover and not ND.

http://www.youtube.com/v/9HExSdpwwfY

Great class - thanks again Suarez International!

tomfoolery · 09-10-2007, 08:42 PM

great videos. a lot of peopla take for granted the moving away from the threat while engaging (mainly newer shooters). i think its an important skill to train train and train some more.

**Bycyclist** · 09-11-2007, 09:58 PM

Moving off the X is key when you're within 7 yds, especially if no cover near by. Standing there trying to out draw someone who's got the drop on you is disaster. You may shoot them, but you'll probably get shot. I think its better to get a 6" spread on your opponent and NOT get shot, then get a perfect 2" double tap on the BG, but get drilled yourself.

**Alaskapopo** · 09-11-2007, 10:13 PM

Inside of 7 yards cover should not even be a concern. Your main focus should be on shooting the bad guy. At that range trying to go for cover will just make it harder for you to shoot the bad guy as he is shooting at you.
pat

**Bycyclist** · 09-12-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskapopo

Inside of 7 yards cover should not even be a concern. Your main focus should be on shooting the bad guy. At that range trying to go for cover will just make it harder for you to shoot the bad guy as he is shooting at you.
pat

I respectfully disagree/sort of. Inside of 7 yards - staying alive should be your main focus, of which moving is key. Moving AND shooting at the same time. You can effectively shoot and move as I learned in this class, and as demonstrated in the vids above - just a little different than the usual MT/Stand and Deliver stuff taught at most shooting schools, LEs, etc.

**Alaskapopo** · 09-12-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bycyclist

I respectfully disagree/sort of. Inside of 7 yards - staying alive should be your main focus, of which moving is key. Moving AND shooting at the same time. You can effectively shoot and move as I learned in this class, and as demonstrated in the vids above - just a little different than the usual MT/Stand and Deliver stuff taught at most shooting schools, LEs, etc.

Moving and shooting is fine but your focus should be on shooting the bad guy first not on moving to cover. Latteral movement is always good.
Pat

**Bycyclist** · 09-12-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskapopo

Moving and shooting is fine but your focus should be on shooting the bad guy first not on moving to cover. Latteral movement is always good.
Pat

Agreed! I didn't mean moving to cover (unless you're literally right next to it), I meant moving off where you were standing.

**Alaskapopo** · 09-12-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bycyclist

Agreed! I didn't mean moving to cover (unless you're literally right next to it), I meant moving off where you were standing.

We agree then.
pat

09-10-2007, 08:34 PM	#1
Bycyclist XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NorCaliforneeya Posts: 1,829	Suarez Intl: Point Shooting Progressions Class Review (vids) Had a great weekend learning from Roger Phillips, one of Suarez International's staff instructors, learning point shooting/close distance combat shooting this weekend in Reno! In summary, this class was very organized and well-taught, with truly a "progression" of skills/drills, albeit fast-paced, moving through the point shooting continuum. We covered a multiple range of skills - movement, indexing, etc. I think this was the "missing" link for my shooting continuum skills, as I've had quite a bit training in the sighted fire methods (see previous reviews on Burkett, Jarrett, TR). For 5yds. and less, this was truly natural and fast, and easily/readily learned. As far as accuracy? No problems getting 5" groups and less, even on a run. The movement drills made a great deal of sense as well, and seemed to flow naturally from my previous movement skills. The "S" drill was particularly challenging stuff and revealed some strengths and weaknesses in my approach/problem solving (see vid below). So yes, now I'm a believer in the point shooting stuff - just another tool in the box for self-defense. Here are a few of the drills: First is 12oclock towards a BG then off angle, although you couldn't see the target. http://www.youtube.com/v/fV-Y5ip_GOY Second is getting off the "X" then launching towards the BG, approaching at oblique angle. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...07491969&hl=en Final is the infamous "S-Drill" or at least the first two calls from Roger. This was a long 60 rd count drill that put everything together we learned in class. Probably the best self-defense shooting drill I've ever participated! BG #4 was tight head shot to neutralize so I realize it looked stupid to stand up, but that was how I got a clear shot from where I was. Also, the parameter to this callout/stage was "way behind reaction curve"- hence the big duck and swing around. Yes, I know I fumbled the draw - but I did manage to recover and not ND. http://www.youtube.com/v/9HExSdpwwfY Great class - thanks again Suarez International! __________________ =============================================== BYcyclist - the worst day on a ride (or at the range) is better than the best day in the office =============================================== Last edited by Bycyclist; 09-14-2007 at 11:28 AM.

09-11-2007, 09:58 PM	#3
Bycyclist XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NorCaliforneeya Posts: 1,829	Moving off the X is key when you're within 7 yds, especially if no cover near by. Standing there trying to out draw someone who's got the drop on you is disaster. You may shoot them, but you'll probably get shot. I think its better to get a 6" spread on your opponent and NOT get shot, then get a perfect 2" double tap on the BG, but get drilled yourself. __________________ =============================================== BYcyclist - the worst day on a ride (or at the range) is better than the best day in the office ===============================================

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09-10-2007, 08:42 PM	#2
tomfoolery XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 4,617	great videos. a lot of peopla take for granted the moving away from the threat while engaging (mainly newer shooters). i think its an important skill to train train and train some more.

09-11-2007, 10:13 PM	#4
Alaskapopo XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Alaska Posts: 2,870	Inside of 7 yards cover should not even be a concern. Your main focus should be on shooting the bad guy. At that range trying to go for cover will just make it harder for you to shoot the bad guy as he is shooting at you. pat __________________ Colt M16/AR15,1911 & Glock Armorer. Certified Firearms Instructor & Urban Rifle Instructor. Completed SWAT Entry Team and SWAT Sniper courses. NRA Endowment Member IDPA Expert level shooter in CDP, ESP and SSP. USPSA A 56876 IDPA A27468