new project: Mosin Nagant refinish/accurize/etc...

[dave_in_delaware]

Well everyone, I've had these visions in my head for a while now, so I thought I'd put them down on "paper" and run it by everyone here to get some input, opinions, other ideas, etc....

NOTE: Before anyone freaks out, let it be known that I plan on keeping my 1942 DDR marked all-matching-serial-number, "Izzy" arsenal 1891/30 intact for historic purposes. I'm planning on buying a different 1891/30 (or M38 or M44) and doing the project on THAT gun.... And yes, I know some people are totally against "sporterizing" or modifying a surplus rifle like this. Thank you for your opinion and your feelings, but that's why I will be keeping my first Mosin intact (for the history), and messing around with another Mosin. It'll be good "practice" for me, and a fun DIY project.

I'm planning on just buying a cheap M-N 1891/30, or M38, or M44 (depending on your opinions here)... probably one w/ unmatched arsenal marks and unmatched serial numbers, as long as the gun is in overall good (and functional) condition. That way, if I mess something up, it won't really matter.

My initial idea (hereafter called "idea #1") was to just totally refinish the Mosin, by staining the stock a nice dark color, and then gunkoting some of the metal black and polishing other metal parts (to look like stainless steel, or close to it). In the end, I wanted a dark wood and black and stainless Mosin that looked really sharp, and was still totally functional to take to the range.

Then after seeing some pictures of what others have done, and what after-market parts are available (like modern stocks), I had another idea (called "idea #2"): take things a little further and accurize the Mosin, and "sporterize" it by totally floating the barrel, doing some trigger work, adding a scope (more on this later), modifying the stock, and adding a bipod. Refinishing (idea #1) would also occur.

Now, idea #1 should be easy enough. Disassemble, clean, refinish, Gunkote, Dremel, reassemble, done. A specific question to everyone is: has anyone ever done their own GunKote job? Is it easy? I think I read that you don't need to preheat the surface or bake it, so that's a plus. Also, when polishing steel (trigger, barrel, etc) to a nice bright shine, what sort of compound do you use, and what Dremel attachment?

I'd *really* like your input w/ idea #2. And here are my questions:

1. There are a few ways to mount a scope to a Mosin. One is the "original" (i.e. sniper rifle version) way w/ the special scope mount adapter and certain scope, which is commercially available. Another way is to remove the rear sight and use the dovetail to mount rings and use an extended eye relief scope. And the third way is to do a modification to the rear sight and add a modern scope rail and slap on a scope that way.... What would YOU do?

2. There are new modern stocks for the Mosin, but I'd rather keep what is there and modify it somehow. I was thinking of cutting the stock down to just behind the rear barrel band, where the stock takes the size bump. Basically, just cut off the part of the stock that is under the handguard.... Would you cut it there or keep some of the "extended" stock?

3. To accurize the Mosin, a free-floated barrel is probably necessary (or at least ahelp). Running a dollar bill between the barrel and stock on my Mosin revealed some points where the two touch. Additional sanding inside the handguard and stock would alleviate some of this problem. BUT, you can also add thin pieces of brass back at the recoil and tang bolts to raise the receiver up a little, and with the help of question #2, that should float the barrel nicely.... Has anyone ever added shims to a rifle? Would you use thin brass (cut to shape) to do it?

4. How does one provide an attachment point for a bipod? I've never had a bipod so I have no idea what a bipod needs to be ON the stock to attach to. Any input would be appreciated.

5. Has anyone done any trigger work on their Mosin? I'm not a gunsmith and messing w/ the mechanicals of the trigger sort of scares me. I had read an article that mentions adding some of the thin brass to part of the trigger mechanism to make it a shorter pull distance. I guess I could read that article again for help.

6. I'll be filling in the sling slot on the stock to help solidify the stock even more. That I can do. But is there any way of modifying the stock to include a raised cheek rest? Nothing super-fancy, but has anyone ever seen a wooden stock modification like this done before? I'd probably like to add a softer butt plate, too. Or maybe somehow modifying it to accomodate an adjustable butt/cheek system?? Hmmm.....

7. Depending on where the scope is located, a modified bolt handle would be necessary to allow room for operating the bolt without hitting the scope. I've seen commercially available after-market bolt handles for the Mosin, so I guess that would be the best bet since I don't have any welding equipment in my house....

8. As far as accuracy, I'm assuming a longer barrel would be best, so I'd pick up another 91/30. But could this be done w/ a M38 or M44 as well? What are your thoughts and opinions on doing this to a rifle or carbine? Pros and Cons of each?

And after any accurizing/sporterizing/whateverizing I'd refinish the rifle like in idea #1 above.

Here's a "drawing" of my ideas:


(original M-N image, at top, by "waxx" from DeviantART)

Well, I think that's all the specific questioning I have for now. Especially since this is all "in my mind" right now, as a bunch of DIY ideas swimming around.

What do you guys/gals think? Am I insane? Will any of this stuff work? Am I in over my head? Have any of you refinished or modified a firearm? Do you have any online or book resources for such an endeavor?

I value every member's opinion here. Please give me both constructive and destructive criticism! Any input is welcomed!! Thank you!

[ichy_trigger]

3. To accurize the Mosin, a free-floated barrel is probably necessary (or at least ahelp). Running a dollar bill between the barrel and stock on my Mosin revealed some points where the two touch. Additional sanding inside the handguard and stock would alleviate some of this problem. BUT, you can also add thin pieces of brass back at the recoil and tang bolts to raise the receiver up a little, and with the help of question #2, that should float the barrel nicely.... Has anyone ever added shims to a rifle? Would you use thin brass (cut to shape) to do it?

I hav an old 1893 Mauser that was sportorized by some outift in Florida. They pourded lead into the recoil block channel and then bedded it. Its beeded rock solid because of that. I dont see why you couldnt either shim it or add an opoxy of some type.

[chupacabrachus]

http://www.huberconcepts.com/Mosin-N...eplacement.htm

I've read good things about these. It's a good way to really improve the trigger pull weight of your MN. I shimmed mine a little bit and saw a small improvement, but nothing great. You might want to check this thread out too:
Nagant Project begins: Pics added 56k warning.

It looks as though the pics got taken down, but it was a pretty tricked out nagant. I don't think a range report was ever actually posted though to show how accurate it was when all was said and done.

[Brickboy240]

You're going to hate me for saying this, but if you're going to invest any money and time into sporterizing a military surplus rifle - the best choices are Mausers and 03 Springfields. Since many Mausers and the 03 are realy pricey and/or too valuable to cut up, how about starting with a M48 or Yugo re-work German 98k? Maybe a 98K Russkie capture?

Why the Mauser over the Mosin? First, there are better stock choices, second, the trigger is easier to wrk on or replace late with a Timney. Third, scope mounting is MUCH better - you get a low centered comfortable mount that will increase your accuracy because you'll be in a more natural position to shoot from. Fourth, the 8x57 Mauser round is a great round that is available in several flavors in factory form. The 7.62x54R is much more limited. Fifth, the Mauser action is a smoother feeder and more positive and has a better, less clunky safety.

Do the mosin thing if you wish, but you'll end up with a better sporter that is more accurate, smoother to operate and you'll be happier with if you use a Mauser action.

I have three sporterized milsurp rifles: one on a 1930's Czech VZ-24 action (8mm), one on a 1936 Obendorf Mauser action (22-250) and one on a M1903 Springfield action (30-06) and I love them all.

- Brickboy240

[dave_in_delaware]

Originally Posted by ichy_trigger

I dont see why you couldnt either shim it or add an opoxy of some type.

I saw some sort of glass beading/floating kit online somewhere. I guess that's an option. But I'll start w/ the sanding of the stock/handguard and raising the receiver a tad first. Unless I go with a totally new replacement stock, which i'd rather not do at this time....

Originally Posted by chupacabrachus

... I shimmed mine a little bit and saw a small improvement, but nothing great.... It looks as though the pics got taken down, but it was a pretty tricked out nagant. I don't think a range report was ever actually posted though to show how accurate it was when all was said and done.

Thanks for the info and link. I read through the thread, but couldn't really "see" what was going on due to the pictures not coming up. I would have liked to read a range report, too.

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

You're going to hate me for saying this, but if you're going to invest any money and time into sporterizing a military surplus rifle - the best choices are Mausers and 03 Springfields. Since many Mausers and the 03 are realy pricey and/or too valuable to cut up, how about starting with a M48 or Yugo re-work German 98k? Maybe a 98K Russkie capture?

Do the mosin thing if you wish, but you'll end up with a better sporter that is more accurate, smoother to operate and you'll be happier with if you use a Mauser action.

I don't hate you for your awesome suggestions. On the contrary: I thank you for them!

For this project, I had chosen the Mosin (ha!) only because I already have one, and I figure I could get another one pretty cheap if I'm not worried about the arsenal marks, s/n's, etc matching. I also saw some pictures of someone's 91/30 on deviantART.com and they inspired the "refinish" idea that I have. The major modifications idea came later.

The other military surplus options you mention are certainly a possibility, too.

Keep the comments coming, everyone!!

[RobFMJ]

Dunno if this appeals to you, but I've always toyed with the idea of buying an M38 and turning it into a 'scout' style rifle (senthetic stock, extended eye relief scope, etc.) kinda like this:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...ifle/index.asp

[Krackels]

I did some snooping for you and found this.
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=529

How's the bore on your mosin, dave? I'd also check the crown and consider getting it recrowned, since this is a fairly cheap mod that can really improve accuracy.

You might also consider picking up some non-surplus brass cased ammo.

[einheit 13]

Hubber trigger, or get a Finn trigger, alot smoother. Shimed many a Mosin action with brass shims at the action bolts. Works like a charm AFTER you figure out which way to go. I reccomend bedding the barrel, just as the Finns did on alot of thier rifles. As to the stock, change it. I have one of these...love it. ATI is crap.
http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.as...ductSKU=875240

For a scope set up, I would add a side rail, that way you can use just about all the side mounts for AKs and SVDs, even the ones with a rail on top so you can mount what ever you want. Just about every top mount scope rail I've seen on Mosins has cracked.
Go here for a bolt body,
http://www.mosinnagant.net/Boltman/Boltman.html

As for a bi pod, you can screw the base right to the stock, or install sling swivles and use an adapter or mount a rail and use a rail mount set up.
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/SearchR...?CategoryID=40



If you are going to use a carbine, find a late production M44. Typically they are in like new condition.

[dave_in_delaware]

Originally Posted by Krackels

I did some snooping for you and found this.
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=529

How's the bore on your mosin, dave? I'd also check the crown and consider getting it recrowned, since this is a fairly cheap mod that can really improve accuracy.

I had read that article last night, and have it saved as a pdf for future reference. It's where I got some of the ideas I mentioned in the original post.

The bore seems to be fine. As far as the crown, I'm not 100% sure what a "perfect" crown should look like. I've also read an article somewhere where someone took a Dremel tool and redid his crown DIY-style.

Originally Posted by einheit 13

Hubber trigger, or get a Finn trigger, alot smoother. Shimed many a Mosin action with brass shims at the action bolts. Works like a charm AFTER you figure out which way to go. I reccomend bedding the barrel, just as the Finns did on alot of thier rifles. As to the stock, change it. I have one of these...love it. ATI is crap.
http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.as...ductSKU=875240

For a scope set up, I would add a side rail, that way you can use just about all the side mounts for AKs and SVDs, even the ones with a rail on top so you can mount what ever you want. Just about every top mount scope rail I've seen on Mosins has cracked.
Go here for a bolt body,
http://www.mosinnagant.net/Boltman/Boltman.html

As for a bi pod, you can screw the base right to the stock, or install sling swivles and use an adapter or mount a rail and use a rail mount set up.
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/SearchR...?CategoryID=40



If you are going to use a carbine, find a late production M44. Typically they are in like new condition.

I've seen the ATI replacement stocks. I was not impressed (even the camo one was kinda lame, for a converted Mosin anyway). Thanks for the link to that manufacturer.

How/where does the "side mount" work? I don't think I've seen a picture of one installed, so I'm having trouble picturing in my mind how it works.

Good sniper bolt site.

Anyone know of a decent yet inexpensive bipod worthy of putting on a M-N? I've seen the Outers site. Would one of those work?

Thanks again for the comments. I'm liking this project so far!

[einheit 13]

Originally Posted by dave_in_delaware

How/where does the "side mount" work? I don't think I've seen a picture of one installed, so I'm having trouble picturing in my mind how it works.