Armed Patrols in New Haven CT

[jeepinbanditrider]

Originally Posted by retrodog

This is a disaster just waiting to happen. If they have no authority then you can start counting the seconds till they get disbanned. One a-hole citizen who challenges their authority and shoots (or gets shot by) one of them will bring the whole thing to an end.

Gets shot by who????A police officer?

[Badshot]

WOW... guess the whole "Well Regulated Militia" thing just doesn't matter to some of you? Actually rather disturbing, some of the commentary. And no offense to our LEO brethren, but there just ain't enough of you on the ground, most departments in my area and local governments don't either have the funding or the political will to make it happen right.

Ya know... good for these guys. It's good to see the rights of citizens being actually used rather than just spoken of.

[aiformula]

I am a member of my neighborhood watch. I have a regular patrol schedule. When I walk, I never take the same route, and sometimes I stop and talk to the neighbors and their kids. Having a weapon on you is discouraged but it is not forbidden so long as all local laws are being attended to. When I'm out walking, I usually have a walking stick/cane, a flashlight in my pocket or on my belt, and my gun tucked away. The cops that patrol my neighborhood all know I am a permit holder and they understand they are to assume I am armed. All but one are comfortable w/ me carrying "on the beat" but that's because I've developed a rapoire (sp?) w/ them that they feel I could conduct myself in a responsible manner. To my knowledge I am the only ccw holder on my neighborhood watch, but in talking w/ others, who know I hold the permit they have begun asking me for guidance on getting theirs as well. It's a strange feeling because I am the "young'n" of the group. To that end, I would have to agree w/ what the citizens are doing, esp. if they are patrolling in pairs or groups. Yes, deterrence is achieved by just being there, but if something does happen, then the bg has to figure out which one is armed and indecision can be a better weapon than a gun.

[jtkratzer]

My question is the legality of it, not the fact that someone is carrying a firearm, but we are not allowed to act as law enforcement.

What are these people going to do if a lady runs up to them and says a man just stole my purse and went that way?

How much leeway do these people have to pursue suspected criminals?

This might sound paranoid, but this almost sounds like it would be too easy for something like corruption to turn this group into a great racketeering team.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by aiformula

I am a member of my neighborhood watch. I have a regular patrol schedule. When I walk, I never take the same route, and sometimes I stop and talk to the neighbors and their kids. Having a weapon on you is discouraged but it is not forbidden so long as all local laws are being attended to. When I'm out walking, I usually have a walking stick/cane, a flashlight in my pocket or on my belt, and my gun tucked away. The cops that patrol my neighborhood all know I am a permit holder and they understand they are to assume I am armed. All but one are comfortable w/ me carrying "on the beat" but that's because I've developed a rapoire (sp?) w/ them that they feel I could conduct myself in a responsible manner. To my knowledge I am the only ccw holder on my neighborhood watch, but in talking w/ others, who know I hold the permit they have begun asking me for guidance on getting theirs as well. It's a strange feeling because I am the "young'n" of the group. To that end, I would have to agree w/ what the citizens are doing, esp. if they are patrolling in pairs or groups. Yes, deterrence is achieved by just being there, but if something does happen, then the bg has to figure out which one is armed and indecision can be a better weapon than a gun.

Do you wear any sort of uniform? I would love to start something like this in the area where I live. I think there are still serious drug trafficking problems in my area. A house just across the street is one I think is a dealer hot spot. There are constantly quick stops in and out with a variety of different cars. People walk down the street on opposite sides, cross, meet, shake hands, and walk back the way they came from. I just don't like that my wife is at home by herself the nights I get home late. But that's why she knows how to use the shotgun...

[aiformula]

No uniform. Neighborhood watch groups are typically just groups of citizens with a police officer contact in their local precinct. You carry a flashlight, a cellphone, and a notepad and pencil. You are there to report suspicious activity if you see it, not engage them. However I take my pistol because I am taking the precaution that where there is one, there may be more and I am the one they are looking out for. Usually you patrol w/ at least one other person, but not always.

[jtkratzer]

After reading several articles, I find it laughable that the denouncers again are using the lame excuse of not wanting more guns on the street as if it's the guns that commit the crimes. It's the actions and intentions of the people that are the problem.

[Badman400]

Good idea IMO. Whether the watch members act accordingly will depend on the individual. But then, the same is true for the LEO. Training for these watch individuals would be the smartest thing.

Bottom line; the would be criminals will be deterred knowing that the community has a watch group. Crime rate will drop. For those that would attempt crime anyway, it is only prudent that the watch members be armed for self defense.

Hats off to LE, but they can't be everywhere. LEO's are most often a "response team", and not a deterrent.

[Pugs]

Hm...

This is a tough issue. I absolutely support the right of private citizens to own and carry weapons whether open or concealed. I absolutely support the right of private citizens to use said weapons in self-defence or defence of others.

I have an issue, though, with untrained private citizens actively trying to play a law-enforcement role. Frankly, that frightens me and would give rise to exactly the type of "gun battles in the streets" that the anti-gun/anti-carry folks claim will happen.

The po-po have very specific rules and training for threat escalation and properly executing an arrest. A private citizen with a gun, not so much training.

Now the neighborhood watch thing, I have no issue with. If you're wandering around the neighborhood to take eye-witness notes and call for police assistance if you see a crime, I'm all for that. If you have a valid license to carry a weapon and you happen to be carrying it as you perform your neighborhood watch, I'm all for that.

You see a crime and you pull your gun and try to stop the crime, well, that's not so cool. The crime you perceive may not be a crime at all.

Someone has a gun and looks like they're going to shoot someone else. How do you know that it isn't an almost mugging victim holding the would be mugger at gun point?

You see someone carrying electronics out of a rental property at four three in the morning. How do you know that they aren't a second or third shifter who's moving?

Carry the weapon. If you see what you believe to be a crime, stop a safe distance away and take cover/concealment if you can. Call the 5-O. Report the crime. Take notes. Be a good citizen. If the bad guys notice you and threaten your safety, pull the piece and end the threat. If the bad guys notice you and don't bother you, don't pull it.

There's gray area, of course, but I only have a problem with "armed patrols" if you're doing so with the intent to STOP crime.

You aren't the piggifers, so don't try to act like one. Let the fuzz do their job. They're (as a rule) competent, trained individuals who can manage threat escalation and arrests far better than you. The oinkers that I've known personally have been good, decent people who've really given a sh!t about their communities and people they're sworn to serve and protect.

I have no issue you being out there to deter crime (with your presence only), and to report crime.

Note: To any and all LE, the derogatory terms I used for you and your brethren were meant in jest.

[jeepinbanditrider]

Why shouldn't members of a community be allowed to stop crime in their own community????