Shotgun for home protection

[BEEFCAKE-NMCB1]

Originally Posted by the_gunman1

EXACTLY!! And in my opinion the new S&W M&P 15 SPANKS the Colts.

You don't have a clue.




There seems to be a large number of threads from patriots that are seeking to purchase/build an AR type rifle in some configuration. This post will provide most of the answers to those frequently asked questions.

No doubt this post will be somewhat controversial – as I will invariably step on toes in this process – and for that I apologize up front – but also note that I will not compromise my personal integrity by “holding back” on the truth.

Obviously this post will be focused on “tools” that one could trust one’s life too – this post will not cover AR’s that could be used as “toys” (fun guns for plinking/hunting/target shooting/etc.)

We will start with the characteristics of what it is we are looking for in an AR tool – then we will discuss the manufacturers that are making what we want – followed by those that are making close to what we want. If the manufacturer is not listed in this post – I will not trust my life to it – PERIOD. ALL other manufacturers – make “toys”.

The three MOST important parts of the AR are the barrel, bolt and bolt carrier. Consider this – the chamber pressure in an AR when it fires is 50,000 PSI – that is TWENTY FIVE TONS of pressure per square inch - and this is near your face! We only want the highest quality parts to contain those high pressure explosions that occur every time we touch off a round.

OK – the barrel assy. We want:

1. Barrel made from 4150 steel
2. Chrome lined chamber and bore
3. 5.56mm chamber
4. Manganese Phosphate coating under the front sight base
5. Forged front sight assy
6. MagParticle inspected
7. 1x7” twist

The Bolt:

1. Buy the bolt from one of the Tier Three or above manufacturers listed below.

The Bolt Carrier:

1. MagParticle inspected
2. Covered Firing Pin
3. Solid “rear”
4. Properly staked gas key
5. Chrome lined “cylinder” (where the gas rings on the bolt interface with the bolt carrier)

Upper receiver:

1. Forged 7075 T6 construction (not cast)
2. Mil-Spec “true” M1913 rails (if flat top)
3. Mil-Spec anodizing AFTER M4 ramps are cut
4. Mil-Spec small parts (forward assist, ejection port cover, etc.)

Lower receiver:

1. Forged 7075 T6 construction
2. Mil-Spec internals (no “target” or “match grade” parts)


Now let’s look at manufacturers. There are only TWO manufacturers that are independently checked/tested to ensure they build “mil-spec” M series longarms (M16A2 and M4). These two manufacturers are Colt and FN. The US government inspectors ensure they build rifles to the spec.

There are other manufacturers that build to the “mil-spec” – but they do so willfully – and are not independently inspected to the spec. Some manufacturers build to the exact spec – some build to portions of the spec – some don’t build to the spec at all.

The first category is what we will call TIER ONE manufacturers and are the ONLY two that build to the spec and are independently verified. They are:

1. COLT (only the military/LE rifles – the civy “Target” models are not built to the spec)
2. FN

Then next category is “Tier Two” - those manufactures that build to the exact spec – but aren’t verified by US gov inspectors:

1. LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool)
2. BMC (Bravo Machine Company)

Tier Three are companies that build to the spec – but don’t shoot a “proof” round through each barrel before it is MagParticle inspected – they MagPart inspect a percentage of barrels from each lot.

1. CMMG

Tier Four companies build close to the spec – but don’t have 1x7” barrel twist – don’t shoot a proof load through each barrel (they – like CMMG above – inspect a percentage of barrels from each lot) and don’t Manganese Phosphate coat the barrel under the front sight base:

1. Bushmaster

These other manufacturers use sub-standard barrel material (4140) – chambers that may or may not be 5.56 – in short – they are rifles that are build under the standard. Having said that – these “Tier Five” companies do build some quality rifles – just understand – that according the “Spec” – which is how we must judge AR’s – these are further “sub-par” than any of the Tier Four and up. The following companies are not listed in any particular order:

1. Armalite
2. Stag Arms
3. Smith and Wesson (Stag)
4. CMT (which makes Stag and S&W)
5. Rock River Arms (RRA)
6. DPMS

Then there is the Tier Six companies – which I wouldn’t recommend to anyone. The Tier Six companies are any AR manufacturer that is not listed above. Note that many “parts house’s” use AR parts made by one of the above manufacturers – but they also buy parts made from “who knows??” – and is not something I would willingly put my life on the line with…..would you??

So – armed with the above information – I would suggest the following. Buy the assembled upper from any of the Tier Three and up manufacturers.

Buy ANY stripped lower receiver made by any Tier 5 and above manufacturers.

Get all lower receiver parts (actually all small parts) from any Tier 5 and above manufacturer.

Buy bolts/bolt carriers/barrels from any Tier Three and above manufacturer.

If you prefer to go down to your local gun store and just buy a rifle – the only real choice to buy a rifle closest to the “Spec” is our only Tier Four manufacturer – which is Bushmaster.

RRA, Armalite, Stag, et al – all build quality rifles – but they aren’t built even close to the same standard that the Tier Three (and arguably Tier Four) and above companies do.

Hope this helps,

cheers

tire iron

[Hooz]

So let me get this straight... According to you, the only guns anyone should even consider owning are "mil-spec"?

For shotguns we have Mossberg 590s.

For handguns we have 1911s (But what is the "tier" for all the makers of 1911s?!?) and Beretta 9mm... Umm...

Remington 700 rifles, Colt AR15/M16, and Barrett .50BMGs?

So if nothing else is "as good" as the mil-spec stuff, why the hell are you trolling in an XD forum? Anyone owning anything but the guns listed about should obviously be afraid for their life, right?

[the_gunman1]

I don't have a clue? I have a considerable amount of family that carried Colt ARs and 99% of them say they are crap. Not that I give a damn cause I don't like ARs anyway. Why in the hell any one would anyone WANT to use a hyper speed .22 for combat or defense is beyond me. I have very little respect for the 5.56 round. I'll take an M14 any day over any AR. You can talk all the crap you want but you can't push your opinion on me. The fact that you believe mil-spec weapons to be superior is exactly that, YOUR OPINION and that don't make it fact! No hard feelings. I'd take a S&W 1911 over a Colt 1911 any day too.

[Super Trucker]

I got another Rem 870 recently from a local dealer for about 300 new, it has a syn stock and a 18" barrel 7+1 12 gauge.

[retired]

I have only read one post that mentions an Ithaca. I realize Ithaca has gone bankrupt (twice, IIRC), yet it still exists.

What I like about it and it probably is only a factor for a lefty, is that the ejection port is on the bottom. I'm guessing that might have been a factor in my dept.'s choice. At least on the model 37 Deerslayer and Featherlite models. The former is used by my former dept. and I own the latter in a parkarized model, with a 7+1 capacity. The dept. one is 4+1, but policy limited it to 4, with none in the chamber when secured in the car.

I bought mine in '76 as I needed to get familiar with one prior to going on rides at stations while a cadet. We never had enough time during breaks to do it with 85 cadets and 1 shotgun (pretty stupid huh).

I don't have 1000s of rounds thru it, but I have a few and have never had a malfunction with it. The ones the dept. has have thousands of rounds thru them and some of them are older than mine. GunBroker.com and Gunsamerica.com are good places to find them and they are within your budget.

Per Ithaca's site, the bottom ejection port is a Browning design, so I guess that is a good point with his name connected with it.

I just thought I'd throw the Ithaca out there for consideration as an alternative to the Mossy and Remington.

[Dhunter55]

Originally Posted by retired

I have only read one post that mentions an Ithaca. I realize Ithaca has gone bankrupt (twice, IIRC), yet it still exists.

What I like about it and it probably is only a factor for a lefty, is that the ejection port is on the bottom. I'm guessing that might have been a factor in my dept.'s choice. At least on the model 37 Deerslayer and Featherlite models. The former is used by my former dept. and I own the latter in a parkarized model, with a 7+1 capacity. The dept. one is 4+1, but policy limited it to 4, with none in the chamber when secured in the car.

I bought mine in '76 as I needed to get familiar with one prior to going on rides at stations while a cadet. We never had enough time during breaks to do it with 85 cadets and 1 shotgun (pretty stupid huh).

I don't have 1000s of rounds thru it, but I have a few and have never had a malfunction with it. The ones the dept. has have thousands of rounds thru them and some of them are older than mine. GunBroker.com and Gunsamerica.com are good places to find them and they are within your budget.

Per Ithaca's site, the bottom ejection port is a Browning design, so I guess that is a good point with his name connected with it.

I just thought I'd throw the Ithaca out there for consideration as an alternative to the Mossy and Remington.

I've never owned an Ithaca but everyone I've ever spoken to that has, swears by them.

[mattjohnston87]

Jeez fellas, I thought this thread was about shotguns......

Anways...

I saw the Mossberg Maverick on sale at an LGS one day, went and handled it.... and though "eh"...

Next I handled the Mossberg 500, better than the Maverick, but still "eh"...

Finally held the Remington 870 and was sold. In my opinion it is far superior in fit and smoothness of operation than the other 2. Very solid.

Matt

[the_gunman1]

Sorry brother I guess I got carried away. It just aggrivates me when some one says I wrong or "clueless" because I don't share thier opinion on something. My bad. I do agree that 870's are very nice but for the money I prefer the Mossbergs for the most part. I have to admit though that I looked at a used 870 Wingmaster yesterday that was pretty sweet!