Buying Tips Wanted: M1 Garand

[wombat13]

I'm in the market for an M1 Garand and the CMP is not accepting orders. At the local gun show this weekend there were a couple dozen garands with a wide variation in price, even among examples seemed comparable based on description and appearance. I'd like to get some buying tips to make sure I don't overpay. I did a thread search, and although this question has been asked before, I don't think it has ever really been aswered. All I could find is:

[quote]\

What type of damages should I look for?

Same ones you'd look for in any other rifle. Be sure to check the locking lugs for wear or setback, and that the oprod will cycle unimpeded.
[endquote]

In that same thread, a poster mentions a "bullet test." That's all I've been able to find.

My interest in the Garand is because my grandfather carried it in WWII. I'd like to get one that is in at least as good condition as CMP describes as "service grade." So here are my questions:

1. How do I assess the condition of an M1? Specifically, how do I measure throat erosion and muzzle wear? Any other key assessments?

2. Since my interest in the M1 is to have the rifle my grandfather carried, I'd like one that is true (as is reasonable) to what he would have had. Are there any common modifications that I should avoid?

3. A dealer at the gun show said that if I want a gun to restore, I should look for one with a matching barrel and receiver (of which he had a couple in the $700-$800 range). Does this make sense?

4. Are there any shady practices out there like using incorrect parts or other ways of cheating people on M1s?

5. The CMP was selling "service grade" M1s for $600. How much should I expect to spend at a gun show?

6. Bottom line: If I want to spend no more than $800 what should I be able to get and how do I verify that I'm getting what I'm paying for?

[wolfsburg_de]

If I were in your shoes (I was in similar shoes a few months ago), I'd place and order TODAY for one of these:

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm

R004SAR*
M1 Garand, Springfield Armory

$395

These rifles were loaned to Greece and later returned to the US Army. These rifles have all USGI components and parts, but wood may be Walnut, Birch, Beech or other US or foreign variety and may have initials or other symbols carved into the wood. Rifles do not have import marks.

After going over a few Garands at gun shows and in shops, the prices ranged from $600 into the thousands for guns that I had no idea of the differences between them. Even in a worst case scenario where the barrel you get is very worn and the stock is beat up, you could buy a decent stock and have a brand new barrel fitted for less than the cost of one of those show/shop mystery guns.

You'll find that there are two distinct groups of Garand buyers:

1) Shooters, like you and me. We just want a cool, historic rifle that shoots well, without breaking the bank.

2) Collectors who place a hundreds of dollar premium on the specific part number of some specific part in their gun, regardless of whether or not it would even make the gun shoot better.

Due to #2, prices are higher for us #1 guys.

Here's mine:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/showthr...346#post490346

[BBunin]

The Garands that CMP has right now are just fine for what you're looking for.
You won't win any 1000 yard matches with it, but it'll still nock the center out of an X ring at 150 yards.

The wood may have sone nicks and dings, but that just makes it MORE like the one your grandad had. You don't think that HIS had a factory new stock, do ya?

[wombat13]

Originally Posted by BBunin

The Garands that CMP has right now are just fine for what you're looking for.
You won't win any 1000 yard matches with it, but it'll still nock the center out of an X ring at 150 yards.

The wood may have sone nicks and dings, but that just makes it MORE like the one your grandad had. You don't think that HIS had a factory new stock, do ya?

I hadn't looked at it that way. I guess I assumed that the lowest grade rifles, which are all that are available, wouldn't be very accurate. Also, I guess I'd like a rifle that doesn't look beat, in case I want to display it.

[wolfsburg_de]

My only regret about my CMP rifle is not ordering sooner. You order now!

[Timmy44221]

Im not sure why they wouldnt accept orders, I was just at the store, and they had tons of em.

[BBunin]

You're going to refinish the stock somewhat, anyways.
That's a given with most MilSurps.
A bit of fine grit sandpaper and a few applications of Tung Oil and you're good to go.

[Dibs50]

Originally Posted by wombat13

In that same thread, a poster mentions a "bullet test." That's all I've been able to find.

My interest in the Garand is because my grandfather carried it in WWII. I'd like to get one that is in at least as good condition as CMP describes as "service grade." So here are my questions:


1. How do I assess the condition of an M1? Specifically, how do I measure throat erosion and muzzle wear? Any other key assessments?

Go to www.scott-duff.com

It's best to use a gauge to measure TE (Throat Erosion) and MW (Muzzle Wear). The photo below is from Scott Duff's page. He sells a gauge that looks like this.

Scott is an M1 Garand guru of sorts. I highly recommend his book
The M1 Garand: World War II. It's packed with great information on the WW II rifles. There's another book that includes post-war models.





Here are a couple of other sites you might like to check out:

http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm

http://www.fulton-armory.com/tea/

http://www.memorableplaces.com/m1garand/

http://www.chestnutridge.com/gpic.asp


2. Since my interest in the M1 is to have the rifle my grandfather carried, I'd like one that is true (as is reasonable) to what he would have had. Are there any common modifications that I should avoid?

It is highly unlikely that you will find an "all original" rifle. Back then, their concern was getting rifles back onto the battlefield. Repairs and improvements were made. Barrels were changed out. Lend/Lease sent rifles overseas.

You may find a "restored" rifle and but price will be a premium. (I saw one recently for $2,000). When one "restores" a rifle, all of the parts will match. This means the markings on things like the trigger group, barrel, etc. match up with the manufacture date. Duff's book explains it all.

3. A dealer at the gun show said that if I want a gun to restore, I should look for one with a matching barrel and receiver (of which he had a couple in the $700-$800 range). Does this make sense?

That's a start. Given that entire rifles are selling around here for $700, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't believe it's all that common to run into matching barrels/receivers. If you want a shooter, buy a whole gun. If you want to lovingly restore a rifle in memory of your grandfather, I'd get the matching barrel/receiver. Before I did that, I'd read Duff's book. It explains all of the markings on the parts so that your restoration will be successful.

4. Are there any shady practices out there like using incorrect parts or other ways of cheating people on M1s?

There are always cheats out there. There are markings on the wood called "Cartouches". Some people try to pass of a newer stock by reproducing the cartouches and selling them at a premium. Study, study, study.

5. The CMP was selling "service grade" M1s for $600. How much should I expect to spend at a gun show?

Gun shows that I've been to will have them in the $700-800 range. However, you will know what you are buying. You will be able to select a specific rifle with a serial number that is within a certain time frame. For example, some people want rifles that were manufactured before D-Day (June, 1944). You will be able to tell when the rifle was made (including the month) by looking at a serial number list.

6. Bottom line: If I want to spend no more than $800 what should I be able to get and how do I verify that I'm getting what I'm paying for?

I know it sounds like I'm plugging Scott Duff. I guess I am. The information in his book is invaluable and will answer a lot of questions that you have. You can also join the Garand Collectors Association. Lastly, do a search on Amazon. There are a couple of other authors I can't recall at this time who have put out good books on the Garand.

Good luck with your project. (I suspect that it will be a project gun that will be a connection with your grandfather.). If you'd like to share, I'd be interested in a little background about your grandfather. What theatre did he serve in? What was his unit? What did he do?

If I can help further, you can PM me.

[wombat13]

Thanks for the information you've all provided. Right now, I'm inclined to visit the local dealer who was selling M1s at the gun show this weekend for what seemed a reasonable price. He had a Springfield Armory rifle with matching barrel and receiver from 1943 which he was asking $700 for. A WWII Winchester with matching barrel and receiver was $800. Other dealers were asking about $950 for what appeared to be rifles in similar condition. The nearly all original rifles and the sniper models were all in the $2000+ range.

Before that I'll probably buy the gauge from Scott Duff, unless anyone knows of a more affordable way of measuring TE and muzzle wear (the gauge runs $90 I think). Also, I'll need to get a book that has the serial numbers in it so I can verify that the barrel and receiver match and are from the year he claims.

[Dead 'Aye?]

with Original Springfield Armory receiver from the early 1950's. Old barrel was crap, not shootable so it was replaced with a new Criterion barrel. Shoots tight groups and the new walnut stock is gorgeous....email me for photos if you like. $850 plus shipping. I have a fabric case, ammo clips and a scope mount for $40 extra.