Opinions welcome

[KingAirDriver]

(Sorry, this got a little lengthy)

Well,

I just got a decent raise at work (yeaaaaa!!!) so I'm thinking of celebrating by exercising my right to buy another firearm. After we get our medical bills paid off from having the baby, here's what I might be considering...

CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm vs SIG P239 9mm

I've got two other browser windows open right now: one with the CZ/specs and one with the SIG/specs. I've been comparing the two, and they seem to be almost identical in size with only slight differences. The major difference that I notice is that the CZ says capacity up to 14 rds, while the SIG's showing 8/7. I'm guessing the 14rds for the CZ will come in the form of a longer mag, like with the XD9SCs 10/15 mags. Is that assumption correct?? Another concern was the overall height... I have an XDSC, but I don't feel like digging through the closet to get the manual and the specs on it, and SA's website didn't list height that I could find. Anyone know the height of our beloved SC??

My concerns for the dimensions are because I'm looking for a carry weapon with a manual safety. I think I might feel a little more comfortable carrying (once I start carrying, that is...Jan '07) a gun with a safety I can physically engage- I've been reading posts and everyone's opinion always points to keeping a round chambered...makes sense too. Now, I have every bit of confidence in the XD's safety features, but I would like the reassurance of seeing a lever on there, especially since I will be very new to carrying...I don't want any "Ooooops's." Guess I don't know how else to say it. (Oh, and I'm guessing the rear lever on the SIG is a safety- doesn't seem to say on the site from what I can tell.)

I know the CZ would be much cheaper than the SIG, but I've been itching to make a jump to a "big(ger) name" gun where I actually have to spend a little bit of cash. I've always wanted a SIG and have heard nothing but good things about them. I've been researching some online sites (Bud's, Gunbroker, Gunsamerica) to get a general feel for price ranges on them. What's worse, I don't know that any of the dealers around here carry these two models. I know Gander has CZs, but I don't recall seeing this one. If I can't feel them, then I don't think I'll order one.

So, for those of you with experience with either of these two, what do you think? Good points, bad points about them? Anything I should consider? I want to stay with 9mm so I could afford to shoot it for fun still. Or, can y'all think of another gun similar to these two? Here's what I own now for handguns: XD-9SC, Beretta 96FS, 1911. I should also add that I definitely want to go with a different brand than anything I own now. I like what I own, w/the exception of my Charles Daly 1911, but I like experiencing other brands.

Thanks to those of you who made it through my long post, and thanks for replies as well.

[JD McDorce]

Originally Posted by KingAirDriver

My concerns for the dimensions are because I'm looking for a carry weapon with a manual safety.
...
(Oh, and I'm guessing the rear lever on the SIG is a safety- doesn't seem to say on the site from what I can tell.)

The lever on the SIG 239 is a decocker, not a manual safety. There are three "controls" on the left side of a 239: take-down lever, decocker, and slide stop (the DAK and SAS have two - no decocker, since they are DAO).

Capacity differences are likely due to the CZ 2075 RAMI being double-stack, versus single stack for the SIG.

[KingAirDriver]

JD, thanks for clarifying what the lever was.

[Brickboy240]

Once you go Sig, you'll wish you had done it sooner!

I have two Sigs; a late 70s W. German 220 in 45ACp and a early 80s Swiss made P225 (single stack) in 9mm and love them both. Very accurate and not a trouble-one from either of them.

I have carried concealed with my P225, which is slightly bigger than the 239, and it was completely comfortable. It only carries 8 rounds? Who cares? When you can consistently eat the 10-ring out of the target with the thing...8 rounds seems like plenty, if I carry good ammo. I carry a 7-8 round 220 or 1911 alot and never feel under-gunned with that capacity.

I have not fired a 239, but I have held several. Like everything Sig, they seem very well made. I know its more money, but since I have bought two Sigs, I now know why they're so expensive - they work, right out of the box, everytime...and feel extremely good in the hand.

If the price of the new 239 seems high (I think they're awful pricey), you might be able to find a nicely used P225. They're only slightly bigger and are very accurate, reliable pieces that are comfortable to carry all day. I absolutely love mine. I carry the P225 in a DeSantis Speed Scabbard (about 60 bucks) and find it VERY comfortable and very easy to conceal. Top Gun Supply, one of the sponsors here, carries P225 magazines for about 18 bucks apiece - a steal for Sig factory magazines (some Sig factory mags can run close to 40 dollars apiece!). The P225 is still a very common police pistol in the UK and alot of Northern Europe. Mine was a retired Swiss police arm. The P225 is a solid, proven design...much like the P226 and P220. Its a classic, if you will.

If you can swing it, go for the 239 Sig over the CZ, but for less money (I paid about 450 for mine) you might be able to find a nice used P225 and apply the difference in cost over a new 239 towards a good holster and practice ammo.

...food for thought,

- Brickboy240

PS: really...the only CZ pistol to own is the steel, full-size classic CZ-75 in 9mm - the others just don't havethe fit and feel of their classic flagship gun

[KingAirDriver]

Brick,

Great info, thanks! You're making me drool already. I'm gonna run by Sportsman's Warehouse this morning I think and see if they have any SIGs. I know they had some HKs before, so I'm hoping there might be a SIG or two there as well since the two seem to be in the same ballpark.

It might be time to part with the CD 1911 I've got. I've never wanted to trade a gun in, even a gun that doesn't shoot 100% reliably, but it sounds like it might be worth it. Oh, and all I've ever "fondled" of the CZs was the 75B, which had a great feel to it...so thanks for telling me of your impressions of the other models.

Side note...does anyone know if CZ in Kansas City gives tours, or has a "Gift" shop (lol) of sorts to go see/handle all their models? I'm only a few hours from KC.

[Brickboy240]

Check out the Sig Forum and ask about the P225. You will find several people there that love this particular model. Several people there are fanatical about the P225.

The P225 is the predecessor to the P228 that the Secret Service and FBI issued. The P225 is single stack wheras the 228 was a double stack mag 13 shot pistol. I like the P228, but they're a bit chunkier in the grip and since they're not making the P228 anymore, they tend to go for big prices. Also, with 13rds of 9mm, its going to be heavier than a single stack 9mm.

Being a Hi-Power/1911 fan and not really into double actions or 9mms very much, I am surprised that I took to the little P225 like I did but it is an absolute hoot to shoot and is slim and easy to carry. You'll forget its there. Everyone that I have let borrow/shoot this little pistol has loved the feel of it.

The single stack semi-autos have great grips...all of them. Pick up any 1911, Sig P220, P225 or P210 or just about any other single stack 45, 40 or 9mm semi-auto - they all feel great in the hand, period...don't they?

Yeah, I know it only holds 8 rounds, has no night sights or light rail so its kind of boring, considering today's sexy offerings, but the Sig P225 flat out shoots great that is reliable and built to last.

Since hi-cap, more "advanced" 9mms are all the rage, you can usually find nice P225s at a much lower price than other Sigs. Why carry a mid-range brand's 9mm when for around the same price, a sweet W. German or Swiss P225 can be had?

Check them out...I'd be shocked if you did not like the Sig P225.

- Brickboy240

[nikon777]

cooooome to me Kingairdriver...cooome to me..

[KingAirDriver]

Lol Nikon I like your powers of pursuasion!

Well, I hopped on Gunbroker and Gunsamerica real quick and looked around for the 225, Brickboy. I've seen higher prices than I hoped, but I'd also seen a few lower- mid $500s. Not too bad! It is a sweet lookin gun like you said. I've never bought a used gun before; I guess I'm a little shy of buying anything other than new. I like the thought of being the original owner, so that I know its history. But, I guess SIGs are so well made that buying a used one wouldn't be a bad idea, eh??

I just got off the phone with Sportsman's Warehouse and they have both the CZ and SIG... $419 for the CZ, $699 for the SIG, both .40 cal. I'm gonna swing by tomorrow to check them both out. You're right, I do love the feel of a 1911, so I'm looking forward to feeling the SIG.

I stopped by the SIG forum and found a guy with some awesome pictures!

http://oleson-info.com/Gallery/

He has quite a collection of everything. Anyway, as luck would have it, he has a few side-by-side shots of the 2075 and 239! What a difference the picture makes. The CZ looks quite smaller than the 239, but on paper it looks like they should be about the same...except for barrel length.

SW said they don't take trades, so if I buy from them I'll need to cough up the entire amount. It makes the CZ look more appealing, but might make getting the SIG sooner a little tougher than I'd hoped. We shall see.....

Anyway, keep throwing opinions out! I'm loving this input.

[Brickboy240]

Don't be afraid of used guns. I have a safe full of mostly used guns and if you buy quality stuff (like Sigs) theres not alot of risk and I have had very little troubles. No troubles from my used Sigs at all. Yep...even the late 70s P220...older model that you'd think would give me a little trouble, but none in the year I have owned it and God knows I run the ammo through the thing.

Most reputable gunshops I know of would let a customer return a defective used Sig or try to repair it. If they won't...be careful.

A company out of Abilene, TX called CDNN Investments sells certified pre-owned Sigs that Do have a warranty and they run about 450-500 bucks and look beautiful. My cousin bought a CPO P226 Sig and the thing looked like it had been re-parkerized and nearly new. Shot like a dream and I am sure he paid 500 or less for the thing. Might want to give CDNN a call, because they'll ship to a FFL dealer near you. Its an easy way to get an inexpensive used Sig that has warranty and is like new.

A used Sig in decent shape is the LAST pistol I'd worry about buying used instead of new.

I rarely if ever, buy new guns...just like I have never bought a new car. Let some other numbskull take the depreciation hit on the new retail price and let me pick up a great gun for less money, I say.

Most used pistols have seen very light use, really. Roll the dice...look it over and make sure the dealer has a return policy and take it for a test-spin a day or so after buying to make sure its ok. I'll bet it will be fine.

- Brickboy240

[KingAirDriver]

Well, wifey and I just ran to Sportsman's Warehouse. Unfortunately, the guy I talked to yesterday gave me bad info- they don't have the RAMI, never did, and probably never will. But, on the bright side, I got to feel up the P239! OMG, I think I'm in love. What a nice feel to it! They want $639 for a NIB P239 in 9mm. I've seen several used ones online for much cheaper....decisions, decisions.

Another question, and I haven't done a search yet because I just remembered this: I fondled a Taurus PT-111 as well. I remember reading about them, but I don't remember what anyone said. Are they a good gun? It felt nice, looked pretty sharp, and was only $300 new. I'm kinda wanting a different looking gun...something different than the XD design, so not sure if I'll go for it, but it does seem to fit what I've been looking for in terms of features.

Brickboy, you've sooo made me want a Sig now tho. The whole time I was walking around the mall with my wife I felt like I was on a different planet...I was spaced out dreaming. I kept mumbling to her, "I want a Sig." She just laughed and laughed.