.22LR for Self Defense

[Out_of_Battery]

Hello everyone, Let me start by making it clear I am not attempting to start a "caliber war", and I am fully aware the difference's between killing power, and stopping power. Still it seems a good majority of gun enthusiasts/owner's who carry a weapon for SD underestimate the stopping/killing power of a .22LR when used in a SD situation. The whole my good old .45 ACP is better than everything on earth concept, and the tiny .22 can not stop the attacker(yet I find it funny because regardless of the choice of caliber used for SD, a determined attacker can/may still kill/hurt the victim even after being stop multiple times), where as throughout history the .22LR has been proven effective at putting criminals in the ground(not always immediatly), or stopping/ending the attack. Despite all of the "bigger is better" guys out their stating "Sure it may kill later, but may not stop the perp instantly" leading to the victim being killed by the perp due to .22lr's lack of effective stopping power, their is very few stories I can find to corroborate said statement. Finally, my question is how many of you guys/girls carry a weapon chambered in .22LR as a primary carry weapon for SD? The notion I assert when carrying is, can I accurately/quickly place my rounds where I need them to be(shot placement), and finally do I feel comfortable with the weapon?

My rational is both physical, and psychological:

Psychological: Bigger grants more of a "security blanket" for the operater, and the intimdation effect placed on the perp.

Physical: This can swing both ways, First being hit in the head(human target) with a baseball bat(1-4 lb's) swinged at 60 mph, vs a bolling ball(8-12 lbs) traveling the same speed(sure given the mass of the bolling ball is most likely going to cause more damage), but the effect will most likey result in death/incompacitation regardless.... hint on shot placement. The other is clear a bigger round can create both greater tissue/organ damage, and a larger hole causing more blood loss at a faster rate.

My primary carry weapon is a Glock 19 GEN4 LEO Edition, with a backup ruger sr22.

"One should show limited concern for a person carrying multiple "hand cannons", fear is for the man carrying only the .22 for his aim will almost alway be steady".

[prof_fate]

Having shot a few small critters a 22LR RIFLE may have some value..a 22LR PISTOL - no way. Not unless you are dead 100% accurate which is very very unlikely.

I've had rabbits, squirrels (and don't get upset) cats go down with 1 rifle shot. Usually dead by the time I get there on foot, but not always. A second rifle shot does it for sure.
Pistol? Ha!
And as the critters get bigger forget even the rifle unless the shot is well placed and 80% of the time a follow up is needed (think groundhogs.).

I would love to be able to do a real impact test between them. My bolt rifle seems to kill much better (fewer shots) than my mp15-22 semi auto.
I'll chrono them tonite and report back.

[windsearcher]

I carry a .40 for multiple reasons.....

Would I carry a .22 pistol? Only if there was no other choice. Would the .22 work... maybe. I'll see if I can find it.... there was a 14 y/o kid who just shot and killed a home invader (Tx I think) with a .22. Regardless if I can find that link, any search will show that there are plenty of stories (and supporting evidence) that the .22 may be able to stop the threat, and may very well inflict terminal wounds, even with one shot.

That being said..... the smallest I would personally carry by choice would maybe be a .380 or .38. I started the reply with my preference.

[Kaboom]

yet I find it funny because regardless of the choice of caliber used for SD, a determined attacker can/may still kill/hurt the victim even after being stop multiple times

I suppose you meant "shot".

And I would say, not if it was a Bazooka.
Gangsters have used 22 for eons.

Rimfire simply isn't reliable enough regardless of caliber.

[Cuda66]

There are some gaping flaws in your statement:

First being hit in the head(human target) with a baseball bat(1-4 lb's) swinged at 60 mph, vs a bolling ball(8-12 lbs) traveling the same speed(sure given the mass of the bolling ball is most likely going to cause more damage), but the effect will most likey result in death/incompacitation regardless.... hint on shot placement

First off, you seem to be assuming you will be able to make head shots; this is silly. The head a small, armored, highly mobile target; trying to hit it when the range goes two-way is going to be a LOT harder than trying to hit torso.

Second--your "hint on shot placement" is an argument that people that carry smaller calibers like to toss out, but doesn't hold up to logic--simply being--what factors would make me miss with a 9mm or .45 that you would be able to hit with your .22? Why do you think you will be able to place a .22 better than I will place a .45?

You give a nod to, but don't give enough credence to fact that .22 is a poor stopper. Sure, you can give some anecdotal data where it works...but there will be numerous more where it failed. The difference between a lethal cartridge and a stopping cartridge is huge.

In short--carry what you like, but trying to say that a .22 is just as good as a heavier caliber is silly.

[Out_of_Battery]

Originally Posted by Cuda66

There are some gaping flaws in your statement:



First off, you seem to be assuming you will be able to make head shots; this is silly. The head a small, armored, highly mobile target; trying to hit it when the range goes two-way is going to be a LOT harder than trying to hit torso.

Second--your "hint on shot placement" is an argument that people that carry smaller calibers like to toss out, but doesn't hold up to logic--simply being--what factors would make me miss with a 9mm or .45 that you would be able to hit with your .22? Why do you think you will be able to place a .22 better than I will place a .45?

You give a nod to, but don't give enough credence to fact that .22 is a poor stopper. Sure, you can give some anecdotal data where it works...but there will be numerous more where it failed. The difference between a lethal cartridge and a stopping cartridge is huge.

In short--carry what you like, but trying to say that a .22 is just as good as a heavier caliber is silly.

Keep in mind, practice can most certainly compensate for the calliber. I have been a IPSC member for almost 5 years(yeah I am not your typical recreational shooter). Like I said this is not a caliber war, nor do I intend on turning it into a my dic*, is bigger than your dic*. As with most situations involving self defense, what makes the shooter anymore likely to hit with a .45 over a .22? Stress is stress, and yes .45 in most SD situations is more effective(given shot placement), as goes with most calibers. Shooting someone with either caliber may not yeild the same results for any single person. You can shoot two people with the same caliber in the same region, and the results can/will be different. As with all firearms regardless of size should always be treated with the potentional to inflict death. Furthermore I am not defending the .22lr, or it's effectivness a shot from a .45, or a .22 to the torso, or leg for example may not be fatal, and the perp may continue on with his attempt to harm you regardless. As with a SD situation, any number of variable's can influence the overall outcome.

[Kaboom]

Originally Posted by Out_of_Battery

Keep in mind, practice can most certainly compensate for the calliber. I have been a IPSC member for almost 5 years(yeah I am not your typical recreational shooter). Like I said this is not a caliber war, nor do I intend on turning it into a my dic*, is bigger than your dic*. As with most situations involving self defense, what makes the shooter anymore likely to hit with a .45 over a .22? Stress is stress, and yes .45 in most SD situations is more effective(given shot placement), as goes with most calibers. Shooting someone is the either caliber may not yeild the same results for any single person. You can shoot two people with the same caliber in the same region, and the results can/will be different. As with all firearms regardless of size should always be treated with the potentional to inflict death.

But shooting someone in the same place in the same way will always have more devastating effects from a 45 compared to a 22.

[3shot]

22LR for Sniping groundhogs at 100 or 200 yards sure!

A wacked out desperate badguy??????? No Fn' way!!

Sure there are miracle perfect shots, but come on man....

[Out_of_Battery]

Originally Posted by Kaboom

But shooting someone in the same place in the same way will always have more devastating effects from a 45 compared to a 22.

While I agree, shooting someone "In the same place" maybe a tad difficult in a flight or fight situation such a SD. Doesnt that require quick follow up shots?

[Bonehead]

if a .22LR if what you have, its better than nothing. also hits with a .22LR are better than misses with a .44Magnum.

I would rather hit with a .44Magnum but things don't always go as you would rather have them.