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.22LR for Self Defense

This is a discussion on .22LR for Self Defense within the Non-XD Handguns forums, part of the Other Handgun Talk category; Thought I'd just spray this crap on the wall and see what sticks. For self-defense: .22 beats .45...


View Poll Results: What is your primary carry caliber?
.22LR 1 0.78%
.22 MAG 0 0%
.25 ACP 0 0%
.380 ACP 8 6.20%
9 MM 57 44.19%
.38 SPC 5 3.88%
.357 SIG/MAG 3 2.33%
.40 SW 29 22.48%
.44 MAG 0 0%
.45 ACP/GAP 48 37.21%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-04-2012, 03:06 PM   #41
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Thought I'd just spray this crap on the wall and see what sticks.

For self-defense: .22 beats .45
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out_of_Battery View Post
I find it quite disturbing/unrealistic, how completey ignorant/foolish you along with other so called "internet experts" tend to be. People often times tend to dismiss the killing potentional of any round, as a means to justify their gun purchase. Well, since I spend $1,000 on a 1911 chambered for .45 ACP it must be the best firearm with the most powerful round on earth. What is scary is how you along with other's underestimate the lethality of any pistol/rifile cartridge(even the .22LR) smaller than the one you carry, while the .45 can cause greater wounding effect, when compared to other pistols cartridge, believing a .22lr is a "weak", "underpowered", or "lacks the ability to stop a human". Almost all pistols rounds are deemed ineffective(with regards to one shot stops), against humans. In the unfortunate event involving a situation with another person pointing a pistol at me wether it be a .22lr, or a .45 sure I may take 1-2 shots with a .45 to put me down, or even 6-10 shots with a .22. Regardless dead is dead. I would say the .45 is a tad more humane(sad to say that). Overconfidence, and underestimation can/may lead to you own death.
Where the deuce did this drivel from?

Nobody--NOBODY here has denied that the .22 can be lethal.

What you seem to fail to understand is that lethal does not mean stopping.

And while I do not ever want to get shot--with anything!--I'd much rather face someone with a .22 than with a heavier caliber--all other things being equal.

You constantly bandy the phrase "2 shots with a .45 vs 6 with a .22"...and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out where you get the delusion that one will be able to place 6 shots on target in the same amount of time that one would place two with a heavier caliber...which I find unrealistic.

As a gamer, you should know what a "Bill Drill" is--so, have you have run it with a .22 vs a heavier caliber? You may be surprised to find out how little difference there is, time-wise, between the two.

In short--wake up and smell what you're shoveling.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
Where the deuce did this drivel from?

Nobody--NOBODY here has denied that the .22 can be lethal.

What you seem to fail to understand is that lethal does not mean stopping.

And while I do not ever want to get shot--with anything!--I'd much rather face someone with a .22 than with a heavier caliber--all other things being equal.

You constantly bandy the phrase "2 shots with a .45 vs 6 with a .22"...and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out where you get the delusion that one will be able to place 6 shots on target in the same amount of time that one would place two with a heavier caliber...which I find unrealistic.

As a gamer, you should know what a "Bill Drill" is--so, have you have run it with a .22 vs a heavier caliber? You may be surprised to find out how little difference there is, time-wise, between the two.

In short--wake up and smell what you're shoveling.
I hope you are joking right? I have been a IPSC member for quite a while, and hands down I am vary capable with my .22, and Glock 19 with regards to placing almost 6 rounds with in 1 in groups at point target at 7 yards(moving even at 5 mph). You do not have to be a expert, or even a great marksman to hit a head sized target at 7 yards. You are correct like I stated early practice as often as you can with whatever you feel comfortable with, so many people have been killed with both .22 and higher calibers, and so many have survived being shot multiple times with both. The only surfire weapon with the greatest degree of "stopping power" is any 12+ gauge shotgun. Unfortunately(atleast in most places), you can not CC, or OC them in public without attracting the attention of the police. I can reasonably assert that anyone who purchase's a firearm, but to does not practice, or prepare for a SD situation may still lose even with the biggest handgun. I dare you to tell the perp pointing a .22LR caliber handgun at you(close range). Ah your little pea shooter wis not going to do ****, or I bet you cant kill me in one shot". Many of people died while attempting to prove the .22 round is not a proficent "killing round".
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:07 PM   #44
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less than a week ago i shot a porcupine 5 times with my 22 rifle before it died. so i wouldnt trust it for SD. granted it was dark so the shot placement wasnt perfect and when i got close for the last shot it went down fast cuz i had better shot placement adn a flashlight to see with but i would say a person would likely take more shots unless you hit them with a perfect shot. still though its better than nothing and would totally ruin your day if shot with one.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out_of_Battery View Post
I hope you are joking right? I have been a IPSC member for quite a while, and hands down I am vary capable with my .22, and Glock 19 with regards to placing almost 6 rounds with in 1 in groups at point target at 7 yards(moving even at 5 mph). You do not have to be a expert, or even a great marksman to hit a head sized target at 7 yards. You are correct like I stated early practice as often as you can with whatever you feel comfortable with, so many people have been killed with both .22 and higher calibers, and so many have survived being shot multiple times with both. The only surfire weapon with the greatest degree of "stopping power" is any 12+ gauge shotgun. Unfortunately(atleast in most places), you can not CC, or OC them in public without attracting the attention of the police. I can reasonably assert that anyone who purchase's are firearm, but to does not practice, or prepare for a SD situation may still lose even with the biggest handgun. I dare you to tell the perp pointing a .22LR caliber handgun at you(close range). Ah your little pea shooter at going to do ****, or that cant kill me in one shot". Many of people died while attempting to prove the .22 round is not a proficent "killing round".
First off--paragraphs are your friend. Learn how to use them.

And second--if the .22 is all that good...why do you bother with a 9mm?

Third--Seriously? Let's put you in the situation--you've seriously screwed up your SA, and someone is in your face with a firearm, and it's pretty inevitable you're gonna get shot. You HONESTLY would prefer they have, say, a .357 magnum, and not a .22? You HONESTLY think that there's no difference?

Again--wake up and smell what you're shovelling.

BTW--I liked the overcompensation of having to explain what a "Bill Drill" was. Methinks you had to google it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:19 PM   #46
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For self-defense in the house... whatever is closest at hand. In our house the options are .357 mag, .380ACP, .45ACP, 9mm, 9mm Mak and 20 gauge buck depending on where we're at in our home. If I had more time, I could get to .40S&W, .41 mag, .44 mag and several different rifle rounds.

For SD when I'm out and about, my most used/EDC is .380ACP or 9x18 Mak. The smaller the package, the easier the carry, the more likely I'll have it on my person when SHTF.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:21 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out_of_Battery View Post
I find it quite disturbing/unrealistic, how completey ignorant/foolish you along with other so called "internet experts" tend to be. People often times tend to dismiss the killing potentional of any round, as a means to justify their gun purchase. Well, since I spend $1,000 on a 1911 chambered for .45 ACP it must be the best firearm with the most powerful round on earth. What is scary is how you along with other's underestimate the lethality of any pistol/rifile cartridge(even the .22LR) smaller than the one you carry, while the .45 can cause greater wounding effect, when compared to other pistols cartridge, believing a .22lr is a "weak", "underpowered", or "lacks the ability to stop a human". Almost all pistols rounds are deemed ineffective(with regards to one shot stops), against humans. In the unfortunate event involving a situation with another person pointing a pistol at me wether it be a .22lr, or a .45 sure It may take 1-2 shots with a .45 to put me down, or even 6-10 shots with a .22. Regardless dead is dead. I would say the .45 is a tad more humane(sad to say that). Overconfidence, and underestimation can/may lead to you own death.
While I agree with your sentiments regarding internet "experts" and have disagreed with those who are overly wrapped around one brand or another of ammo, you are really confusing "killing power" and "stopping power". Yes, a 22 will bounce around inside someone and cause all kinds of problems that will likely kill you. That does not mean it is the best choice possible for a self defense round. The issue is not "dead is dead", the issue is if you know you will have to shoot someone who is threatening you or your family what is the best possible choice to maximize your chances of surviving. Nobody can reasonably say a 22 is a good a choice as a 45.

Get a watermelon and shoot it with the worlds best 22 round, then any decent 45, and see what happens. Yes, a person is not a 45. But you will see the difference in how the rounds react (or use something besides a 45, ballistic gel, anything).

If you really think that with you family's life on the line a 22 is a good choice to save their lives I hope you live close to a police station because you have horrible judgement.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:24 PM   #48
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Yes, but the point is that since the head is smaller (considerately) than the torso, and if your aim is an inch or so off, you could injure someone behind the perp, whereas with the torso an inch or two high/low/wide is still gonna hit the person. Plus as someone else mentioned, the head is very hard (no pun intended) and there is a greater chance of deflection when hitting a hard, solid surface vs the soft tissues in the abdomenal tissues, and though the chest is bony as well, the ribcage has enough gaps to allow a bullet through.

Headshots are for video games and (to quote Tool) "Hip Gangsta Wannabes."

This whole argument of .22lr vs the world is complete idiocy, and I am laughing my ass off. This thread seems basically to try and start an argument for the sake of having an argument. F'ing morons.

IMO, there are only a few ways to kill a person with a .22lr. Shoot them in the eyes, throat, temples, back of the head.

There are only two ways thats gonna happen--Sheer luck or the person lets you do it.

end rant. Y'all have a nice day.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:31 PM   #49
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While I agree with your sentiments regarding internet "experts" and have disagreed with those who are overly wrapped around one brand or another of ammo, you are really confusing "killing power" and "stopping power". Yes, a 22 will bounce around inside someone and cause all kinds of problems that will likely kill you. That does not mean it is the best choice possible for a self defense round. The issue is not "dead is dead", the issue is if you know you will have to shoot someone who is threatening you or your family what is the best possible choice to maximize your chances of surviving. Nobody can reasonably say a 22 is a good a choice as a 45.

Get a watermelon and shoot it with the worlds best 22 round, then any decent 45, and see what happens. Yes, a person is not a 45. But you will see the difference in how the rounds react (or use something besides a 45, ballistic gel, anything).

If you really think that with you family's life on the line a 22 is a good choice to save their lives I hope you live close to a police station because you have horrible judgement.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:37 PM   #50
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Personally I think it's silly to think that a .22 will be a good SD caliber. Consider this.

In every possible scenario that could happen, including non stationary moving targets shooting back, you are 100% sure that you will land a perfect and unobstructed head shot? Not all bad guys will stand and give a perfect target like those USPSA targets.Not just a head shot but a head shot to the brain or spinal column? Why handicap your self that way?
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