My new Enfield No.4 Mk.I (UPDATE: new pics, 56k warning)

[hobocircus]

Originally Posted by txpete

there were several manf. in england but don't forget they made a longbranch in canada and also had a factory in india and the aussie made the lithgow but they were mk3-1's.
on the other side it should have a FTR marking of some sort??

excellent rifles and accurate with good ammo.
pete

Don't forget the Savages they made in the US. I had one and sold it without ever firing a shot through it. Yeah, I made a good profit on it, but Oooooo! things like that haunt me

[mr0w1]

Yeah, kinda rough, even for a hand pick, but still, when considering that you're getting a gun for $110...well...let's put it this way -- that gun is worth WELL more than the money I paid for it. Almost every milsurp out there is worth more than they cost. I know there are probably nicer ones out there, but now that I've got my booger hooks on this one, it's mine, and I wouldn't trade it for any other.

I got to shoot it yesterday. Almost no decent surplus out there for it, so I raided my dad's ammo can and got some 180gr Winchester Soft Points (his Enfield is still caked in cosmo and he's only ever shot 5 rounds out of it in the 13+ years he's had it). This is what I've got to say about it:



That thing SHOOTS. My first 5 round group out of it was about 2" from 40 yards, standing, off-hand with no support. It was also almost dark, it was cold, and I was in a hurry because I had somewhere to be later on, so I was firing as fast as I could. Seriously very less than ideal conditions, and it effortlessly put the bullets where I wanted them to go.

My dad shot it and said the only other milsurps he's shot that shot that well and that effortlessly were my K31 and his Swedish. Now, yeah, he's sometimes known to make comparisons that make little sense (he says the new FN SCAR looks like an MP5 ), so take that for what it's worth.

Anyway, rough or not, I love it.

[hobocircus]

WOW good shooting!

I've experienced the same thing when shooting my Enfield for the first time. I just put a target out and fired off several shots to get the feel of the rifle. When I walked out to the target the group was surprisingly tight and the thing was I wasn't really trying hard to shoot a tight group!

I've experience the same level of accuracy out of the Swedish M96, Ruger Mini 14 and a friend's UZI to name a few. Some guns are just like that.

[Brickboy240]

VERY nice Enfield!

I have four Enfields; a 1944 Longbranch Canadian No4, a 1942 Savage No4, a 1916 MkIII and a British Post-war 1954 No4Mk2. All are good shooters. The Longbranch will out-shoot my 03 Springfield and several of my Mausers. The 1954 Brit looks like it was made yesterday.

Yes, the 303 Lee Enfield is a great shooter. I bought several cases of WWII 1945 made 303 MkVII ball on Vickers machine gun belts and have been shooting it off for years. I still have two cases left. The stuff was incredibly cheap in the 90s - think 24 bucks a case of 250. The cases are neat...all British proof stamped and they had not been opened since 1945. Amazingly good shooting stuff, although highly corrosive.

The AL marking has me stumped. Most Enfields with "A" markings in that location are Australian, but the Aussies never made a No.4 Lee Enfield...only the MkIII. Wierd! Are there any other markings on this rifle? Usually, the Brits marked the hell out of their rifles. Theres probably BNP (Birmingham Nitro Proof) stamps somewhere, along with the broadarrow British Army acceptance stamps. They usually marked almost every part with the broadarrow - even the buttstock.

It could be an Indian manufactured rifle, but I have never seen a WWII dated Indian No4. Most of those are dated in the early 1950s. Indian Enfields are also marked RFI (Royal Factory Ishapore).

The British, like the Germans, marked their rifles with manufacturers codes during wartime, to disguise where riflews were being produced. The Germans had codes for Mauser, JP Sauer and the Brits had codes for London Small Arms, Birmingham and Matlby as well. AL is not one of their codes.

There IS an AL marking found on some MKIII Enfields, for the Australian Lighthorse Brigade, but again, these were ONLY on MKIII rifles, not No4s and the AL mark looks different. As far as I know, the Aussies dod NOT use the NO4 Enfield in WWII. The New Zealanders did after WWII, but theirs are marked NZ, where yours says AL.

Does the serial number on the bolt handle match the receiver? How about the magazine?

Really, you're AL marking has me stumped...I have never seen that before.

Yes, the No4 Enfield is a great shooter...isn't it? Very fast bolt operation and not much recoil. The peep sights are great. you can replace your flip styled peep with the later micro-click adjustable peep and squeeze more accuracy out of it. These sights are around at most gunshows and on e-bay for not much money.

Ammo? Well, unfortunately, the hey day of cheap surplus 303 is over. There was some very good stuff out there, like the Greek/HXP marked stuff. The WWII and post war British Mk7 ball was good stuff, but stay away from the Pakistani 1960s stuff - terrible, filthy and lots of hangfires and duds. Wolf makes good plinking 303 as does Sellier & Belliot. The Remington hunting soft points are not the "proper" weight for the sights and will drive you nuts trying to regulate. Their round noses also don't feed well from the Enfield magazine.

My favorite hunting loads in 303 are the expensive Norma 150 gr and the Federal 150 gr - both are very accurate out of my Enfields. I have dropped several wild pigs and a whitetail doe or two with the 303 - it is a great hunting round for deer-sized game.

Let me know what other markings are on your rifle...the AL has me stumped. Really! Theres not markings like this on any Enfield websites I know of.

- Brickboy240

[mr0w1]

Hah! My Enfield seems to be the subject of some inquire and curiosity. I promise that I'll pull it back apart tonight and get some pics of the markings.

Lemme go back and read to hit some of your questions/comments:

The bolt handle is matched to the receiver, but I don't recall if it has any other markings on it or not. (I'm at work).

As far as the Brits "marking the hell out of their rifles", I noticed that when I was taking it apart to clean it that it had all kinds of marks all over the thing. I found it amusing.

I do recall seeing "broad arrows"; look like ---> /l\ more or less.

Magazine, if I remember correctly, doesn't match, but I'm not certain.

My dad has a No.4 Mk.I* with the micro-click rear sight; would that make my gun less "accurate" in a historical sense, or were there Mk.4 No.I's with them? I'd rather have one on it, but if that'd be like taking a real M38 stock off of an M38 and putting an M44 stock on it just because it's prettier, well...I'm kinda a purist, despite the fact that it's not a permenant mod.

Still, I suppose I'll probably pick one up some time. Anyway, as far as ammo goes, I'm just gonna reload my own. Reloading for bolt guns is not nearly as annoying as reloading for autoloaders -- the ammo lasts longer and you're tired of shooting much sooner.

Anyway, thanks for the comments.

mr0w1

[Brickboy240]

I bought a micro-click rear sight for my Savage No.4 Enfield...only to shoot at the range. It ran me about 15 bucks at a gunshow. Since the rear sight comes on and off with a screwdriver, you can easliy convert it back. I kept the "S" marked rear flip sight and can put it back on, for authenticity sake.

The broadarrow marking you describe is a standard British Army ownership/acceptance stamp. If you find parts on your Enfield marked with an "S" in a box (Savage) or a combined LB (Canadian Longbranch) then its a mixmaster. Also, the markings FTR (Factory Through Repair) stamped on the buttsocket is another dead giveaway of a re-arsenaled Enfield.

There used to be a website, called Enfield Rifle Research or something like that - the guy had boatloads of info on these rifles. He might know what the AL marking is, but I have never seen it and I have a bit of knowledge about these rifles.

If you're going to load your own ammo, I think Hornady makes a 170gr 303 bullet - this will come closest to the 174gr factory load of the Mk7 ball ammo and will be closest in weight as to regulate your sights.

I am a big fan of the Enfields. They're great shooters, more accurate than everybody thinks and are very very durable and reliable boltguns with a ton of history behind them.

- Brickboy240

[beardman2]

man... big 5 has them for $99. I called 5 or so close to me and all but one were out. The one that had one was in really rough shape. It probably could have been cleaned up but... I decided to pass.

gun show weekend after next I'm hoping to add a M44 and some more ammo. I'd love a yugo sks at the same time but I don't think it will happen.

[mr0w1]

Here are the pics I promised. The only markings that aren't all that clear in the pics are on the top of the barrel, and those aren't all that clear in real life. On with the pics. You can click on any pic and get an MASSIVE hires (~2MB, 3072x204.











































So.....eh?

[Brickboy240]

Nice rifle.

Since most of the parts have an "M" stamped on them somewhere and there is a faint "M" near the broadarrow and the date on the buttsocket, I'd say that your No4 Enfield was made by the Royal Ordinance Factory (ROF) Maltby in Yorkshire, England.

The two groove barrel was a mid-wartime change, done to speed up production. So was the change to the flip rear sight. During the early days of No4 production and in the post WWII days, they used four groove rifling and the more costly click-adjustable rear sight.

Don't worry, the 2 groove barrels can be just as accurate as the 4 groove Brits and the 5 groove Canadian No4s. My 1942 Savage made No4 has a 2 groove barrel and is an accurate rifle.

Your rifle was probably sold by the Brits in the mid 1950s to either the Indians or the Pakistanis, who used these for quite some time after WWII. I have some Pakistani 303 ammo that dates to 1967. I also saw several Enfields being carried by Afghani freedom fighters and Pakistani Army volunteers, going with the US forces, to oust the Taliban and look for Bin Laden. The Indian palace guards at the Taj Mahal were carrying No4s on security detail, in the wake of the 9-11 attacks. I have also seen British and Australian Enfields carried by various fighters in many African countries in recent years. The No4 Enfield is still alive and well...no doubt about it.

You have a nice rifle there...keep it original and enjoy shooting it. The No4 Enfield is one of my favorite shooters. My 1944 Canadian Longbranch No4 gets lots of rangetime.

- Brickboy240