XD Talk

xdmlapeer · 07-15-2009, 08:51 PM

I took the wife shoping and with all the choices she actually came home with a XDsc 9mm.. Easy to operate slide, she really liked the grip safety along with the trigger safety.. pretty easy to conceal.. Fits in a front fanny pack or other..

Joeywhat · 07-15-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I agree that CCW in a purse is a bad idea. Even worse is undersizing for ccw. Why do we always coddle women when it comes to this? A .380 for ccw is just plain crazy. Your wife or girlfriend would have to score a minimum of 3 quick hits to stop an assailant with that thing. If the bad guy is wearing a heavy coat or jacket it may not penetrate at all. A 9mm is the absolute smallest caliber that we should be giving our ladies to defend themselves with. It may take more time and effort but take her to the range and get her used to the recoil and the noise and the weight. It will all come with practice and she will be armed with a weapon she can rely on and is proficient with. The .380 is little more than a paper shooter and shouldn't even be considered for ccw.

And worse yet a lot of these guns are SMALL...which means more recoil. A Glock 19 (or even 26!) is super easy to conceal, and has very little recoil. An airweight .38 or Ruger LCP are much easier to hide but also have a lot of bark!

A .380 would make for a good BUG, though.

danp · 07-15-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I agree that CCW in a purse is a bad idea. Even worse is undersizing for ccw. Why do we always coddle women when it comes to this? .38A 0 for ccw is just plain crazy. Your wife or girlfriend would have to score a minimum of 3 quick hits to stop an assailant with that thing. If the bad guy is wearing a heavy coat or jacket it may not penetrate at all. A 9mm is the absolute smallest caliber that we should be giving our ladies to defend themselves with. It may take more time and effort but take her to the range and get her used to the recoil and the noise and the weight. It will all come with practice and she will be armed with a weapon she can rely on and is proficient with. The .380 is little more than a paper shooter and shouldn't even be considered for ccw.

And you think you won't have to shoot someone more than once with a 9mm, .40S&W or .45acp to stop them?

Really? It was a standard police cartridge in Europe from WWII until the 1990s. I carry my LCP as both a BUG and CCW and I can tell you that I wouldn't want to be shot with it any more than I would want to be shot with my .45acp.

It is amazing how much bad advice one can get on the internet. Here is some you can take to the bank:

Take her to a gun store with a large inventory, tell her that .380acp is the minimum caliber she should carry, but bigger is better. Then let her pick a gun she likes. Rent it if you can, so she can try it out, but let her pick her own gun.

Joeywhat · 07-15-2009, 09:26 PM

A gun isn't for everyone...I think some good OC spray would be more useful than a gun in this situation, and will get you less legal hassles.

Yosemite Sam · 07-15-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danp

And you think you won't have to shoot someone more than once with a 9mm, .40S&W or .45acp to stop them?

Really? It was a standard police cartridge in Europe from WWII until the 1990s. I carry my LCP as both a BUG and CCW and I can tell you that I wouldn't want to be shot with it any more than I would want to be shot with my .45acp.

It is amazing how much bad advice one can get on the internet. Here is some you can take to the bank:

Take her to a gun store with a large inventory, tell her that .380acp is the minimum caliber she should carry, but bigger is better. Then let her pick a gun she likes. Rent it if you can, so she can try it out, but let her pick her own gun.

I'm really not sure how to respond to this post. *I* "wouldn't want to be shot" by a .22 so therefore it's a good choice for self defense. Is your bad advice better than mine since it can be taken to the bank? At any rate, you completely nullified your entire arguement and essentially agreed with me saying "bigger is better". I never did suggest that a woman should not have any say in her weapon of choice. My entire post centered around the idea that a .380 is unacceptable for self defense. Your reasoning that a .380 is acceptable for ccw because you carry one and because European PD used them between WWII and the 1990s is completely iirrelevant. Not to mention that it raises the question of "why did they stop using it if it's just as effective as a 45acp?" If you truly believe that the .380 is as effective as a 45acp for stopping an attacker (as your post suggests) then you just don't understand ballistics. I would suggest that you do some supplimental reading on the "one shot stop" theory. It is really amazing how much good information there is on the internet and there is much that addresses this subject. SWAT teams, police departments and the military have all done lots of research into this and I don't know of one organization IN THE USA that uses a .380 as their standard issue.

danp · 07-15-2009, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I'm really not sure how to respond to this post. *I* "wouldn't want to be shot" by a .22 so therefore it's a good choice for self defense. Is your bad advice better than mine since it can be taken to the bank? At any rate, you completely nullified your entire arguement and essentially agreed with me saying "bigger is better". I never did suggest that a woman should not have any say in her weapon of choice. My entire post centered around the idea that a .380 is unacceptable for self defense. Your reasoning that a .380 is acceptable for ccw because you carry one and because European PD used them between WWII and the 1990s is completely iirrelevant. Not to mention that it raises the question of "why did they stop using it if it's just as effective as a 45acp?" If you truly believe that the .380 is as effective as a 45acp for stopping an attacker (as your post suggests) then you just don't understand ballistics. I would suggest that you do some supplimental reading on the "one shot stop" theory. It is really amazing how much good information there is on the internet and there is much that addresses this subject. SWAT teams, police departments and the military have all done lots of research into this and I don't know of one organization IN THE USA that uses a .380 as their standard issue.

So, your premise that .380 is unacceptable for self defense is based upon what? A one shot stop theory that cannot be proved in the real world?

I can drop you with one shot from a .177 pellet gun if I hit you in the right place and I can shoot you ten times with my .45acp and you could still be able to take it away and beat me sensless with it if I don't put the rounds in the right place.

I agree that bigger is better, I carry a .45acp as my primary for a reason. However, one should carry a gun that they can conceal, operate and shoot accurately. If that is a .380, then so be it.

BTW, I have been shot by a .22 and it sucked, but it wasn't as bad as getting hit with a police baton.

Yosemite Sam · 07-16-2009, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danp

So, your premise that .380 is unacceptable for self defense is based upon what? A one shot stop theory that cannot be proved in the real world?

I can drop you with one shot from a .177 pellet gun if I hit you in the right place and I can shoot you ten times with my .45acp and you could still be able to take it away and beat me sensless with it if I don't put the rounds in the right place.

I agree that bigger is better, I carry a .45acp as my primary for a reason. However, one should carry a gun that they can conceal, operate and shoot accurately. If that is a .380, then so be it.

BTW, I have been shot by a .22 and it sucked, but it wasn't as bad as getting hit with a police baton.

10 hits from 45acp and I can still beat you senseless??? Do you make these wild statements just cuz you think they sound good? Did you give that statement even the slightest thought before you made it? Am I wearing body armour?? Did I sign my name Clark Kent?

You now want to interject concealability, shot placement, pellet guns, police batons and anything else you can to obfuscate and cloud the issue. My statement was with regard to caliber and caliber alone. Shot placement is an entirely different subject and you know it. Yes, my contention that a .380 is unacceptable for self defense is based on the "one shot stop" theory as well as facts that are proven through scientific means such as "BALLISTICS". While the OSS theory is "unprovable" there is plenty of evidence which gives creedence to it. It boils down to "the bigger and deeper the hole the better" regardless of placement. If you want to dismiss that out of hand and continue to believe a .380 is a viable choice for self defense then you go right ahead and carry one. It's your butt, not mine.

gsh341 · 07-16-2009, 02:27 AM

Teach her a better way to work the slide.

My wife tries to push the slide back and struggles with it.

I showed her the better way which is a slingshot grip on the slide and push with the hand on the grip, not pull with the hand on the slide.

This is a lot better because people naturally have more strength when pushing compared to pulling.

Tiburon65 · 07-16-2009, 07:03 AM

For those on the caliber debate, here is a little info and video to give you some thoughts. He used what he had verses a shotgun.

Ignatius Piazza: Shotgun in Your Face and .380 in Your Pocket…

sldghmr · 07-16-2009, 07:35 AM

Not to step on anyones toes, but carrying a gun for safety is useless unless you have some basic self defense training. It all starts with the proper mind set, and builds from there. With out the very fundamentals of awareness, situation assesment, I doubt that even a man will get his gun into play when attacked.

In my humble opinion, if anyone is considering carrying a gun for self defense, that they go through the basics of self defense, become proficient at it, then take the next step with gun training.

The gun is only a tool, to be used when and if the circumstances are right for it deployment. I train once a week with a small group of dedicated professionals, some of them bring their wives, and I think that is wonderful that they have the interest in getting the basics down.