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Obama executive order on trusts

This is a discussion on Obama executive order on trusts within the NFA Talk forums, part of the Armory Talk category; Hey guys, does anyone know if executive order that Obama has put through attempting to stopping of Class 3 items though a trust actually come ...

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Old 11-10-2013, 09:35 PM   #1
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Obama executive order on trusts

Hey guys, does anyone know if executive order that Obama has put through attempting to stopping of Class 3 items though a trust actually come into affect yet? I was wanting to open a trust for a suppressor that I am purchasing in a few weeks but don't know if I still can even go this route?
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:20 AM   #2
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I just checked and there has been no Congressional action related to NFA trusts.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:21 AM   #3
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Ok thanks I appreciate it
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:35 AM   #4
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If such a law was passed, it might be that existing trusts would be grandfathered in. It'd be a gamble but it's something to think about.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:40 AM   #5
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To my knowledge, this does not have to go through Congress.


The ATF has a comment page if you would like to voice your dislike.


Though, I have heard that "certain nefarious organizations" have hired people to write positive comments and remarks supporting more restrictions.


https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...ble#page-55014


And this is one of the best explanations of the changes.
NFA Trust Rule Change Explained | The Truth About Guns
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:23 AM   #6
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The comment period has been closed since Monday the 9th. WEAK response on the comments (only around 9000), and not all of them were in opposition to the proposed changes. Consensus seems to be that it's going to steamroll through and pass as written.

It does not have to go through Congress. No one will ever get a vote on this. The only recourse we had was to raise our voices and express opposition, but few did. As such, it's likely a done deal as proposed.

The Federal Government cannot (as I understand it, and has been explained to me) mandate that the local CLEOs review our applications for ATF forms. This is a good thing overall, as the less Fed involvement in our local law enforcement, the better generally. Not really much help on this situation though. It should likely be possible however, to enact state and/or local regulations that would mandate the CLEO review of such applications.

The reality is that there are effectively no chief LEOs in major metropolitan areas that want to review, let alone sign off on a form 1 or form 4. By mandating this requirement for CLEO signoff on trusts and LLCs, the Federal Government is able to shut down a giant share of NFA purchases and transfers without technically making them illegal. Get used to tactics like this.

They won't make ammo illegal, just lead ammo - or they'll mandate other features that make it cost prohibitive. Maybe some day, they enact a common sense gun law that bans any semi-auto that holds more than 5 rounds as NY did. After all, they didn't "outlaw guns," they just enacted a common sense law that the majority supports (or so they claim). What happens if they reclassify all of our semi-auto evil guns as NFA items? Hey, we aren't "banning" anything... Sorry you can't get a signoff to keep that...

The fight is not over, and I think that we'll see it ratchet up again considerably once everyone's guard is down again - and God forbid there's another crazy mass-shooter that pops up again (you know there will be at some point).
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:50 AM   #7
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I have always done my forms as an individual, but I am certain that if the CLEO doesn't sign, there are alternative person(s) who may sign.


e. Law Enforcement Certification. Item 17 must be completed for an individual transferee, unless the transferee is licensed as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer under the GCA and is a special (occupational) taxpayer under the NFA at the time of the submission of the application for transfer. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police for the transferee's city or town of residence; the Sheriff for the transferee's county of residence; the Head of the State Police for the transferee's State of residence; a State or local district attorney or prosecutor having jurisdiction inthe transferee's area of residence; or another person whose certification is acceptable to the Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief's, Sheriff's, or other authorized official's name and title, followed by the word "by" and the full signature and title of the delegated person. The certificate must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:59 AM   #8
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9000 responses? Not surprised. Many gun owners are very 'laxed about sbr's and supressors, unfortunately.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John A. View Post
I have always done my forms as an individual, but I am certain that if the CLEO doesn't sign, there are alternative person(s) who may sign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John A. View Post


e. Law Enforcement Certification. Item 17 must be completed for an individual transferee, unless the transferee is licensed as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer under the GCA and is a special (occupational) taxpayer under the NFA at the time of the submission of the application for transfer. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police for the transferee's city or town of residence; the Sheriff for the transferee's county of residence; the Head of the State Police for the transferee's State of residence; a State or local district attorney or prosecutor having jurisdiction inthe transferee's area of residence; or another person whose certification is acceptable to the Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief's, Sheriff's, or other authorized official's name and title, followed by the word "by" and the full signature and title of the delegated person. The certificate must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.
True, but it's not likely that the District Attorney or Prosecutor is going to sign either. I don't know anyone that has gone the route of " another person whose certification is acceptable to the Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives." I'm not sure who that might be, but maybe someone else on here knows. I know that here in Houston, it's either a trust/LLC or nothing as far as NFA goes. No one will sign anything.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:25 PM   #10
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And therein lies the problem and why the entire authorization signature should not be a requirement or even an option.


Much like today, back in the 1930's, criminals didn't follow the law then either, and the entire fingerprint and police signature was nothing more than a ruse because their logic was that in order for them to have a machinegun (example), they would have to go to the police department (where they would be arrested) to be able to purchase it or be able to stack more charges on them after the fact when they're otherwise caught and arrested.


As has been the precedent, the laws only affect the law abiding.


Fast forward almost a hundred years, there are so many urban myths and ignorance of the NFA laws and regulations, that a single policeman can deny your 2nd amendment rights, and that should not be allowed to take place.


If these policy changes do take place, I would be willing to donate some money to help fund a class action lawsuit to change the current regulations.


That's the only way I know how to combat it. While I did have a comment about this, it is nothing more than lip service and I am not so foolish or naive to not realize that or know upfront that the comment period would change nothing. This is but the first step in a long journey.
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