STI vs. Kimber vs. Springfield

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by MagicPie

I have 2 Kimbers and owned 5 at point in time, and never experienced a problem.

You have to keep in mind, you will always have more post that are negative then positive . This goes for anything, there no a whole lot of reasons to make a post, just to say something is great. However when your having a problem, you post and tend to make it worse then it really is. Therefore you get a large accumulation of negative and very little positive remarks to balance anything out.

Not to mention there is a large amount of Kimber hatred for no reason other then to hate. These people hear the smallest complaint and ensure its made big.

The most common problem is people dont give the 450-500 break in, Kimber suggest.
I polish my feed ramp from day one, and have been able to feed hollow points in less then 100rds of break-in.

The one fault that is Kimber's--is the supplied factory magazine-they suck.

Simply replacing them with a Kimber KimPro or Wilson Combats eliminates most problems.

The Eclispe has over 1500rds with no problems, the Covert has less then 250, 100 of those where old Speer GoldDots- eat those with no problems.
Where some would never buy a Kimber, for me Kimber and Wilson Combat are the only 1911's I would buy.

I have to disagree the problems with recent Kimbers is not blown out of proportion. A lot of guns are not working right. I have seen it first hand. Their quality has taken a nose dive in recent years. Also a good 1911 does not need a 500 round break in. My WIlson worked from day one as did my Series 1 Kimber. This is an excuse Kimber is using to let poor guns slip out and delay customer complaints.
Pat

[Bobby Schulz]

I have a pair of custom TLE II's full 5 inch model black with the internal extractor and they both run great VERY happy with the pair.

[BBQLS1]

Originally Posted by scooterj

STI 2011 guns use a couple parts that won't work in a 1911, but their 1911 guns are all 1911.

I missed that.

[MagicPie]

Originally Posted by Alaskapopo

I have to disagree the problems with recent Kimbers is not blown out of proportion. A lot of guns are not working right. I have seen it first hand. Their quality has taken a nose dive in recent years. Also a good 1911 does not need a 500 round break in. My WIlson worked from day one as did my Series 1 Kimber. This is an excuse Kimber is using to let poor guns slip out and delay customer complaints.
Pat

All the higher end 1911s require break-in since everything is of such tight tolerance.

From Wilson Combat's manual:
We recommend that you fire a minimum of 300-500 rounds of full charge ammunition through this pistol prior to initial dis-assembly. This break in is necessary to allow the contact surface to properly "seat", thus insuring dependable functioning.

Worded much the same as Kimber's manual.


Also my Kimber's have not had any problems before complete break-in, but it's still a good idea.

Granted not as many(largely due to smaller amount made) there are quite a few threads complaining about issues with Wilson Combat in the M1911.org forums.

Everyone is quick to say Kimber has gone down hill, but yet they can never give examples or proof to this. As I said in my previous the majority of Kimber hatred is completely unfounded.

[BBQLS1]

Originally Posted by MagicPie

Everyone is quick to say Kimber has gone down hill, but yet they can never give examples or proof to this. As I said in my previous the majority of Kimber hatred is completely unfounded.

I don't have a hatred of Kimber, but part of the reason I didn't buy a Kimber is because I have two co-workers who have them. One is a CSII and the other is an SIS both jam after about 100 rounds and will continue to do so until they are cleaned. Of course, I don't think either was sent back to Kimber for a looking at (yet).

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by MagicPie

All the higher end 1911s require break-in since everything is of such tight tolerance.

From Wilson Combat's manual:
We recommend that you fire a minimum of 300-500 rounds of full charge ammunition through this pistol prior to initial dis-assembly. This break in is necessary to allow the contact surface to properly "seat", thus insuring dependable functioning.

Worded much the same as Kimber's manual.


Also my Kimber's have not had any problems before complete break-in, but it's still a good idea.

Granted not as many(largely due to smaller amount made) there are quite a few threads complaining about issues with Wilson Combat in the M1911.org forums.

Everyone is quick to say Kimber has gone down hill, but yet they can never give examples or proof to this. As I said in my previous the majority of Kimber hatred is completely unfounded.

I know what the manual says and I shot my Wilson for 2000 rounds before I carried it and I did not clean it during that time. GUESS WHAT it did not malfunction during that time.

Most Kimbers need to have their chamber reamed right from the factory. It seems of late as many as 50% have serious issues with reliablity right from the get go. For example a friend I shoot with purchased a Warrior it had to be sent back 4 times before it worked right. That is not acceptable. Then there is the issue with the Swartz system. Kimbers are a no go right now until they get their act back together.
This is from Hilton Yam a well known 1911 smith, SWAT cop and firearms trainer.

" Due to profound issues with the Series II Kimbers directly related to the Series II firing pin safety mechanism, I do not recommend the expenditure of any effort or expense for upgrades. It is far more productive and cost effective to start with a fresh platform that does not include the Series II safety, as you could easily dump a ton of time/money into it and one day have it go "click" instead of "bang." Check out the articles on my site that TJ linked above, they address all the issues above in painstaking detail. "

[MagicPie]

You dont like Kimber and have negative experiences-Alright, I'm not going to try to change you.
I have had positive experience and friends at my local gun range have had the same great experience. Including shooting problem free, with no cleaning for over 400 rds.

I dont know if I could go 2000, I never gone that long without a cleaning, but I feel quite sure both my kimbers could do it.

Anyways all these comparison turn out the same, extreme like or extreme dislike.
I can find people that say the Xd sucks and glocks are better, and vise versa
I can find people that say chevy sucks and fords are better, and vise versa.

The comparasions are endless and for every person that complains about something, there will always be another that prasies it.


If I listened to everyone, I wouldnt own any guns, because there is always a comment saying how brand XXX sucks.

[griz312000]

Had to put in my two cents worth here. I have 2 Kimbers...both .45's..a Custom II and an Ultra CDP II. I really can't say for sure how many rounds I've fired through them, but a conservative estimate would be around 2,000 apiece. I had 1 FTF in the first fifty rounds with the little guy (Blazer steel cases, go figure!!) and not another since. I would trust my life to either of them. I am not saying that there aren't problems, but that happens with every manufacturer. The only thing I changed on them was some Wilson Combat mags. and put the Wilson conversion kits (springs and followers) in the Kimber mags. IMHO these are very well-made and dependable weapons, and I would not hesitate to buy another...

[Delija]

Don't know much about the STI, but between Kimber and SA....well, I know of three large dealers that will not sell Kimbers due to their service (not customer service, but service to the dealers).

As far as reliability and accuracy my guess (just a guess) is it's gonna be hit or miss with any 1911. I was very happy to spend almost $200 more for my SA Loaded at a local store than i could have gotten one for on-line. But buying a gun I could hold in my hands, I got to check out several examples and pick the one that felt best to me...best overall fit and finish and best trigger, etc..... My SA Loaded (9151) has a 4 pound trigger out of the box. They can range anywhere between around there to over 6 pounds, so to me, I figure I saved a trigger job. I also got (retail value) about $150 or so in ammo and range time thrown in the deal. Plus my gun came with fixed combat sights so when i ordered the adjustable sight for $29 on the coupon, the dealer did the switch for me for free (and will switch back if I ever decide to carry the gun).

Sorry I didn't get more of the Metalform magazines for $10...same magazines the SA Pro uses.

As for accuracy....I can't tell you what it shoots at 25 yards since I can't see that far. But from a sandbag rest at 35-40 feet the gun will constantly make one ragged hole with 8 rounds.

The lifetime guarantee is very reassuring (haven't had any issues and have had the gun for about 3 years). Kimber does not have a lifetime warranty.

Someone said the SA lifetime warranty is to the original owner.....not so. They will cover warrantee work for the life of the gun no matter who owns it or how many owners have had it

Bottom line is when i was shopping this 1911 it was pretty much my first and i felt it was worth researching as much as i could (I had a Colt in the mid 1980s, but not for very long.....very prone to jamming and I had no patience)....I went on all the 1911 forums I could find. It was NOT the SA owners comments that convinced me to go with the SA...it was the comments of the Kimber owners on the Kimber forums that sold me on the Springfield.

As for other 1911s, I have heard so many good things about so many different makes. But it seems that there's quite a solid reputation for the SA Loadeds as being the most 'bang for the buck".

Of course you will pretty much get what you pay for. The basic SA Loaded is not true custom gun (although they are hand fitted at the final assembly point). For a top of the line pistol.....maybe closer to your upper price range, the TRP Pro (the model made to conform to the FBI specs) is from what I understand pretty much unbeatable. They guaratee (IIRC) a 1.75 inch group at 25 yards. Comes with something like 6 or 8 tuned magazines, fit and finish is superb - certainly it will be my next 1911 even though I've never seen one (i know there is a pretty long wait to get one after ordering).

Happy shopping!

Peace,
D.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by MagicPie

You dont like Kimber and have negative experiences-Alright, I'm not going to try to change you.
I have had positive experience and friends at my local gun range have had the same great experience. Including shooting problem free, with no cleaning for over 400 rds.

I dont know if I could go 2000, I never gone that long without a cleaning, but I feel quite sure both my kimbers could do it.

Anyways all these comparison turn out the same, extreme like or extreme dislike.
I can find people that say the Xd sucks and glocks are better, and vise versa
I can find people that say chevy sucks and fords are better, and vise versa.

The comparasions are endless and for every person that complains about something, there will always be another that prasies it.


If I listened to everyone, I wouldnt own any guns, because there is always a comment saying how brand XXX sucks.

Actually my Kimber is a series 1 gun one of the first they made and its a fine pistol. But I am not going to stick my head in the sand regarding their recent dive in quality control. This is not a brand loyalty thing I would love to be able to recommend Kimbers but their recent guns are not up to their old standards. I keep seeing Kimbers having problems. Its almost epidemic. Look at the quote from Yam an expert on 1911's. Don't believe me but believe him. He used to recommend the Warrior but recent problems with Kimber has made him take it off the recommended 1911 for duty use list he has.

Many people are so brand loyal to a fault because they happened to be lucky enough to get a good one. They say all nay sayers are lying but that is not the case. Kimbers problem is they got too big too fast. They used to have a few really good smiths putting the guns together now they hire any one they can get to put them together and they cut a lot of corners and its showing in their end products.
Pat