Can someone explain to me.....

[TacoMalo]

Originally Posted by bac1023

For the 1911s you described, with the exception of the TRP, the cost comes down to parts fitting and labor. The TRP is actually a production gun, but a very nice one.

Here's a few of the high end 1911s from my collection. I have a Springfield TRP as well, but its a couple grades down from these.

Top row: Les Baer SRP, Nighthawk Predator II, Ed Brown Kobra Carry

Bottom Row: Wilson Classic Super Grade, Rock River Arms Limited Match, Springfield Custom TGO1

I never knew the true meaning of jealousy until this day!

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by CharlieHo

I'm sorry SVThuh, even though it's obvious you're a fellow blue oval fan, I'm gonna have to raise the big BS flag on this entire post.

Kimber is not anywhere close to a premium/specialty 1911 pistol. At one time they turned out some pretty good pieces, but are worth half of what they sell for these days, at best.

And comparing a SA against an RIA is pure ignorance.

And throwing Taurus into the line is just crazy talk. Yes, Taurus' 1911 line is option rich, but that has no bearing on the quality of said options. Pure junk IMO.




To the OP, for your absolute best bang for the buck, you will find no better value than the SA Loaded line right now. No line of pistols will ever be 100%, but SA has no competition at this point in time for a production pistol.

To get anything better in the 1911 platform, valuewise, you will spend a considerably larger sum of money.

Charlie, I agree with most of your post. I will bold the part I disagree with. I walked into a local shop last year and put a Dan Wesson Pointman Seven Stainless next to a Springfield Loaded stainless and they're almost identical. I like the trigger better on the DW. They both have practically identical sights, the same color scheme, finish, the slide serrations are identical. The price on the two were sale prices at the end of the year but both were $699. The Dan Wesson is a higher priced piece 9/10 and retails higher. I'm not saying it's necessarily better, but I liked the fit and the trigger better on the DW. I also preferred the non-ambi safety on the DW. It uses Ed Brown and Chip McCormick parts. The only difference I could find outside of the safety, was the Loaded uses a stainless barrel bushing and the DW uses a black bushing. Had it not been there, I would have been more than pleased with the Springer Loaded. I did not get to shoot the Springer Loaded yet, but I have been more than pleased with the DW and have yet to experience a failure.

[rogerxd45]

well the cheaper 1911s use looser tolerances so they can just put the slide on the frame like they do with the xd. but the higher end non-GI type usually will have most parts "hand fitted" that way they can have really tight tolerances.

but its really hard to compare a plastic gun thats "plug and play" to a steel or alluminum gun that requires a person with a fair amount of gunsmithing skill to put together since most 1911 require a few different hand fitting of parts. where an xd or glock they can have a minimum wage person put it together, where no gunsmith is going to put 1911s together for $5.15 an hour and even less in foreign countires. also most parts used to be machined or forged now they use MIM parts for the parts that dont require fitting that they can just drop in but that limits them to only a few parts on a 1911 where a glock or XD or other loose tolerance guns can have almost all parts MIM or cast with minimal machining which can be done by a machine automatically doing it which can be done cheaper

also the polymer frame can be done VERY cheap compared to a steel frame or aluminum and once again there is no extra work they have to do to that frame either, even the mold lines are still on it (mostly on the inside but a little bit remains on the outside. also the machines that make the plastic frames will last much much longer if not forever.

when you strip a 1911 down to the bare parts you will be amazed with how tight stuff fits. The xd is just a much simpler design it takes almost no skill to put one together and the only parts of the xd that have tight tolerances are the barrel including the "lugs" at the bottom of the barrel and the sear group fits tight but not as tight as 1911 parts

also the 1911 requires more testing before it shipped and sold xds get fired once but in order to be sure about the good 1911s they need alot more of an inspection and function testing

[CharlieHo]

I have heard some good/some bad things about DW pistols. Not NEARLY as many bad stories as some other manufacturers mentioned in this thread so far.

I have zero experience with Dan Wesson personally, so I cannot comment on the validity of stories that I have heard. I am glad to hear you have had a good experience with DW.

I should have added "IMO" to the part you bolded, as pretty much anything you read on th interwebs is someone's opinion... But, sometimes you get a touch of opinion based in actual hands-on experience

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by CharlieHo

I have heard some good/some bad things about DW pistols. Not NEARLY as many bad stories as some other manufacturers mentioned in this thread so far.

I have zero experience with Dan Wesson personally, so I cannot comment on the validity of stories that I have heard. I am glad to hear you have had a good experience with DW.

I should have added "IMO" to the part you bolded, as pretty much anything you read on th interwebs is someone's opinion... But, sometimes you get a touch of opinion based in actual hands-on experience

I agree, I wasn't looking for a fight or anything, just mentioning what my experience has been with my DW and it's not priced that much higher than the Springer, and in this case, they had the same price. I really enjoy the Springfield products I do have and have nothing against them. I'm sure the Springer is a great 1911 and I would have bought it had the DW not been right next to it.

You and I both know there are a lot of posts out there "buy this, buy that" based on that person's experience with that gun/model only. When I give advice or try to answer questions, I try to give as much information as possible without steering someone to something I've bought simply because I bought one and like it. Having a positive experience with something helps, but like this instance, I just happen to have a good experience with DW and it's in a similar price range as the Springer Loaded. The more options we have, the better is my opinion.

[Harris]

Poor guy had no idea the can of worms he was opening up with his post.

For the record, I only own Colts (A New Agent - my new favorite gun, an Officer's Model, and a Mustang .380). While none are great target pieces, they sure do the job they were intended to do, come out of hiding to put lead where I want it.

I don't even own an XD, although I think they are great guns, and this is a great forum.

Harris

[scooterj]

Originally Posted by rogerxd45

well the cheaper 1911s use looser tolerances so they can just put the slide on the frame like they do with the xd. but the higher end non-GI type usually will have most parts "hand fitted" that way they can have really tight tolerances.

This is not entirely true. My $594.00 STI Spartan is just as tight as the two custom built STI 2011's I own. The Spartan may not have the best finish, but it comes with adjustable rear sights, fiber optic front sight, beaver tail grip safety, all STI internals, and they are hand fit in the Philipines and then checked over by STI when they get to Georgetown. I would recomend and buy another Spartan in a heartbeat.

[atmiller]

The antiquated design of the 1911s have a lot more parts than modern guns. All of the extra bits and pieces have to be carefully fitted together, which runs up the cost to manufacture. Modern auto-pistols also use plastics, which greatly reduces manufacturing costs.

That Mormon did a good job designing guns, but technology has advanced a lot in 100 years.

[bruce21b]

Okay....so ive been looking over a lot of 1911's...

and i gotta say...the Wilson Combat is SWEET.....

think its time to pull out the ol' plastic

[Harris]

Most do. It's referred to as a Firing Pin Block on 1911's. On Colt's it's disengaged by pulling the trigger, on Kimbers, it's disengaged by depressing the grip safety. Check the literature on your gun of choice. As I mentioned in my first post to this thread, this is a feature protecting against a most unusual circumstance.

Harris