If it Ain't a Colt it is a copy - Page 5 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

rogerxd45 · 03-07-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus

Post count and join date doesn't have anything to do with being a newbie. Newbie is a state of mind.

now thats the truth.

rogerxd45 · 03-07-2008, 10:24 PM

i only have one problem with this thread
AIN'T!!!!come on!

sorry that word drives me nuts

vashooter · 03-07-2008, 10:27 PM

Ok Roger "If it isn't a Colt it is a copy."Happy? My point was not to say that any other manufacturer's 1911 is not a great even a good pistol. I own a Smith and a Armscor and Colt's and others and have shot many 1911 pistols, but they are all Copies of the original Colt designed by John Moses Browning. There are many different variations of the 1911 that sometimes I think that we forget where and why it came to be and still is one of the best platforms. I stand by my original statement though. Floyd

vashooter · 03-07-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perchjerk

so i asssume u swear by the colt??

Yes I swear by it.

jtkratzer · 03-07-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vashooter

Wow I never meant to stir up that bad of an an ant hill!! All I was saying was that JMB desined the 1911 as a Colt. I am not a troller and really do try to participate in this forum if you care to look at some posts. As far as the 1911 comment about all of them being the same, they"re not all the same. I am not one to flaunt my post counts and never try to deride another member of any forum. I am however one to express freely my OPINION and we know what they say about opinions. As I said nothing personal, but some of you chose to get very personal which I do not and will not participate in . Floyd

It's not that it was designed as a Colt. JMB was working for Colt and sold the design to Colt. It was not a Colt to begin with, it was a JMB design. That's why he had to start from scratch when he designed the Browning Hi-Power.

He could have sold the design to anyone.

jtkratzer · 03-07-2008, 11:08 PM

Same thing with the Hi-Power...it's an FN piece originally because that's who contracted his services to design a firearm for them.

The Hi-Power and 1911 are Browning designs, Browning guns...he sold the designs to FN and Colt, respectively.

**1lowlife** · 03-07-2008, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerxd45

i only have one problem with this thread
AIN'T!!!!come on!

sorry that word drives me nuts

Holy s***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rogerxd45, I respect you Bro and your posts.

But you have no room to criticize anyone's use of words.
Your spelling and punctuation (or lack there of) leaves you no leeway to comment on the way another man/woman words his/her posts.
With all due respect Brother......................

vashooter · 03-07-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuppicide

Hey, If he ain't "Pretty Boy" or "The Barber" he is just a copy!!!!!

Or maybe Pink Floyd or.....?????? Floyd Landis, Floyd Patterson,Floyd Mayweather.....the list grows Yuppie....just like 1911"s. Floyd

vashooter · 03-07-2008, 11:23 PM

Yea but here is the rub you still call a BHP a BHP but He sold them the patent just like Colt. But you don't call a Wlson a Colt you call it a 1911, or a Kimber a Colt etc. etc.
The Hi-Power was designed in response to a French military requirement for a new service pistol, the Grand Rendement (French for "High Yield"), or alternatively Grande Puissance (literally "high power"). The French military's requirements were that the arm should be compact, have a capacity of at least 10 rounds, a magazine disconnect device, an external hammer, a positive safety, be robust and simple to disassemble and re-assemble, and be capable of killing a man at 50 metres; this last criterion was seen to demand a calibre of 9 mm or larger, a bullet mass of around 8 grammes, and a muzzle velocity of 350 m/s. It was to accomplish all of this at a weight not exceeding 1 kg (2.2 lb).
FN commissioned John Browning to design a new military sidearm conforming to this specification. Browning had previously sold the rights to his successful M1911 U.S. Army automatic pistol to Colt's Patent Firearms, and was therefore forced to design an entirely new pistol while working around the M1911 patents. Browning built two different prototypes for the project. One was a simple blowback design, while the other was operated with a locked-breech recoil system. Both prototypes utilized a new staggered magazine design to increase capacity without unduly increasing the pistol's grip size or magazine length.
The locked breech design was selected for further development and testing. This model was striker-fired, and featured a double-column magazine that held 16 rounds. The design was refined through several trials held by the Versailles Trial Commission.
In 1928, when the patents for the Colt Model 1911 had expired, Dieudonne Saive integrated many of the Colt's previously patented features into the Grand Rendement design, in the Saive-Browning Model of 1928. This version featured the removable barrel bushing and takedown sequence of the Colt 1911.

vashooter · 03-07-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1lowlife

Holy s***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rogerxd45, I respect you Bro and your posts.

But you have no room to criticize anyone's use of words.
Your spelling and punctuation (or lack there of) leaves you no leeway to comment on the way another man/woman words his/her posts.
With all due respect Brother......................

You are o.k for a lowlife

Floyd

03-07-2008, 10:27 PM	#43
vashooter XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Newport News. Virginia Posts: 236	Ok Roger "If it isn't a Colt it is a copy."Happy? My point was not to say that any other manufacturer's 1911 is not a great even a good pistol. I own a Smith and a Armscor and Colt's and others and have shot many 1911 pistols, but they are all Copies of the original Colt designed by John Moses Browning. There are many different variations of the 1911 that sometimes I think that we forget where and why it came to be and still is one of the best platforms. I stand by my original statement though. Floyd __________________ \"there is nothing contrved by man by which so much happiness is produced by a good tavern or\"inn\" Last edited by vashooter : 03-07-2008 at 10:41 PM.

03-07-2008, 11:23 PM	#49
vashooter XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Newport News. Virginia Posts: 236	Yea but here is the rub you still call a BHP a BHP but He sold them the patent just like Colt. But you don't call a Wlson a Colt you call it a 1911, or a Kimber a Colt etc. etc. The Hi-Power was designed in response to a French military requirement for a new service pistol, the Grand Rendement (French for "High Yield"), or alternatively Grande Puissance (literally "high power"). The French military's requirements were that the arm should be compact, have a capacity of at least 10 rounds, a magazine disconnect device, an external hammer, a positive safety, be robust and simple to disassemble and re-assemble, and be capable of killing a man at 50 metres; this last criterion was seen to demand a calibre of 9 mm or larger, a bullet mass of around 8 grammes, and a muzzle velocity of 350 m/s. It was to accomplish all of this at a weight not exceeding 1 kg (2.2 lb). FN commissioned John Browning to design a new military sidearm conforming to this specification. Browning had previously sold the rights to his successful M1911 U.S. Army automatic pistol to Colt's Patent Firearms, and was therefore forced to design an entirely new pistol while working around the M1911 patents. Browning built two different prototypes for the project. One was a simple blowback design, while the other was operated with a locked-breech recoil system. Both prototypes utilized a new staggered magazine design to increase capacity without unduly increasing the pistol's grip size or magazine length. The locked breech design was selected for further development and testing. This model was striker-fired, and featured a double-column magazine that held 16 rounds. The design was refined through several trials held by the Versailles Trial Commission. In 1928, when the patents for the Colt Model 1911 had expired, Dieudonne Saive integrated many of the Colt's previously patented features into the Grand Rendement design, in the Saive-Browning Model of 1928. This version featured the removable barrel bushing and takedown sequence of the Colt 1911. __________________ \"there is nothing contrved by man by which so much happiness is produced by a good tavern or\"inn\"

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03-07-2008, 10:24 PM	#42
rogerxd45 XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: boise ID (its boy-see, not boy-z) Posts: 3,592	i only have one problem with this thread AIN'T!!!!come on! sorry that word drives me nuts

03-07-2008, 11:08 PM	#46
jtkratzer XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lancaster Co., PA Posts: 16,291	Same thing with the Hi-Power...it's an FN piece originally because that's who contracted his services to design a firearm for them. The Hi-Power and 1911 are Browning designs, Browning guns...he sold the designs to FN and Colt, respectively.