Care and feeding of a 1911...

[Brickboy240]

Yes! My Commander did that...locked back with rounds left in the mag. Drove me nuts.

You cannot always see copper or brass marks on the slidestop. Mine showed no signs of this but this was DEFINATELY the culprit.

I replaced the plunger spring, thinking it was lazy and was allowing the slidestop to move up under recoil. It still did it...grrrr.

Then, I got smart and took a Sharpie and colored the inside of my slidestop and reassembled and shot again. Sure enough, the rounds in the mag were hitting the iside of the slidestop and forcing it up. It left a slight mark on the black colored part of the slidestop.

I took a small file and filed away some material. The problem went away entirely. Wow...a ton of frustration for a simple fix, eh? Live and learn, I guess.

Just be careful, it won't take much to file away whats causing the trouble. File too much and your slide will not lock back on an empty magazine. Its a trial and error type of fix, really.

- Brickboy240

[medicstimpy]

Hummm... it's hard to say. The only time I had problems with my Springfield was when it was new. The first few boxes did everything from failing to chamber to stove-piping. But that went away after about 200 rounds like most 1911's.

The only problem recently was failure to chamber some reloaded rounds but that is because I crimped them a lot to feed in my XD45 and my buddy's Para. They also fed in another buddy's GI.

But since mine is a "Loaded" and not a Mil-Spec, the tolerances are tighter and I'm buldging the case a bit with the excessive crimp. Or so the experts at the club are advising me. That's why they feed in the Mil-Spec since those are supposed to feed everything. They also explained that is why they fed no problem when I wasn't crimping them as much. I backed off the crimp/taper die and voila... no more problem in the XD, my 1911, my buddy's GI but now they won't feed in the Para no more.

Oh, just to clarify.... those were with the 200gr LSWC's that a lot of users can't get to feed in the XD45. Factory RN and lead RN I never had a problem with any of the above mentioned guns since they didn't need an excessive crimp/taper to feed.

[WilliamWallace]

I have 3 point jams... anything about these pics that seems out of the ordinary? I have not touched a thing with a Dremel, this is after 675 rounds.

Any reason for the right side of the throat to be that much higher than the left?









I know this one is bad, but I had to get this in here and the camera just wouldn't focus on it. I drew the little white line so that you could see the indentation in the lip of the extractor. In the one I didn't draw on you can barely see how it is dented in. Shouldn't this be a continuous line?

[Tard]

Honestly, does every new 1911 leave the factory so rough they must be sent to a gunsmith just to function properly?

It seems so to me, I'm used to Berettas and Sigs and now XDs that WORK flawlessly w/o modifications right out of the box.

People paying $1,000 for a Kimber, the first thing they do is get it cleaned up by a 'smith so it's reliable? This is a common story both on the internet and in shooting classes I've been to: the Kimbers jam way too much (more than once every 2000 rounds is way too much, but once every 15?!?).

Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

[WilliamWallace]

i hear ya man, i wanted to love this thing. i really did. it is the one gun in my collection that i have a passion for...

i may fix that in 7 weeks with a new SIG... we will see. it kind of depends on whether itchy stops posting freakin pics of his .308

[Delija]

Maybe I missed a comment in this thread that addressed this already, but why not send the gun to Kimber for warranty work?

I saw the suggestion to send it to Cylinder and Slide, and I'm sure they would get it running, but why pay them when Kimber can do the same for free?

"1911 Tuner" over at m1911.org (and THR as well iirc) has an encyclopedic knowledge of these guns and it's always interesting to hear what he has to say on any issue, but in practical terms his solutions are great if you have the tools and the skills to implement them. Most of us do not. And any real tinkering will just void your warranty. For conceptual knowledge he's the guy. But for instructions on how to fix something... he pretty much always qualifies what he says with a "don't try this at home' type of disclaimer. Same with that that entire group of old time pistol-smiths that generally will put their heads together on the most interesting problems and solutions. Great stuff to read about. But really not for the kitchen table gunsmith. In fact if he's said one thing more than anything else, it's about how many more problems are created than resolved by non-qualified 'do it yourselfers'. Or even by paid gunsmiths who just don't have the qualifications to do some things correctly - a problem that will never occur if sending a gun in for warranty work to the manufacturer.

I know that no one wants to be without their 1911 for the time it takes to have factory service done. But in the long run, assuming Kimber will make it right and right for a lifetime, you need to put that missing time in perspective.

Despite all the talk about how 1911s need to be made to run right, I think in general that's a bunch of bull. We hear about the problems so they stand out. The millions of these guns that work perfectly right out of the box are the vast majority. If that were not true, why would a hundred year old design maintain it's popularity and preference by so many for so long? And it isn't a nostalgia thing either. The FBI hostage rescue team uses Springfield 1911s, many of the military's special forces use 1911s and so do a huge number of police and sheriff's departements SWAT units. It is the gun of choice for many when accuracy and stopping power and reliability are crucial.

The Kimber....in fact virtually ANY 1911 should run completely reliably. Yes, the tighter tolerances of your gun as opposed to a loosely put together army issue gun from WWII might make it a bit more finicky, (in a trade for improved accuracy, which is what Kimbers are about to a great degree), but I'd be surprised if the worst case might be the gun doesn't like some particular brand of hollow-point. The SWCs issue....I don't know. Never tried them (or even thought to) in a self loader of any kind.. But factory hardball? It should all feed all the time. In ANY 1911. And any modern 1911 designed to be sold to the public and to law enforcement should have no problem with any hollow-point round. But guns are quirky, and it seems some will just find something they just don't like. (Ever shoot rimfires with a semi-auto?). Try every possible brand and design of ammo in any semi-auto, and it would not surprise me that eventually you'll find one that each gun just won't agree with. I have not yet found any such cases with any of my present day center-fire semis, but it would not shock me (or bother me) if I did. Easy enough to avoid one specific round.

I cannot imagine any of the mainstream American brands not agreeing with any modern firearm....If one round out of 2000 practice ammo rounds like WWB did not ignite or feed I'd just toss that round and continue on, I'd attribute it to the ammo, not the gun (and even that has never happened in my experience). It certainly wouldn't get me bent out of shape. Actually I'm impressed it hasn't happened with .45 acp WWB....which for some reason just seems far more dirty that 9mm or any of the other calibers of that stuff (that used to be cheap at Walmart....man, the prices have gone up!!!)

If Gold Dots or Hydra-Shocks had a problem, then yeah, I would probably assume a problem with the gun. But I've not only never experienced such a thing, I've never even heard of it first hand - although I'm sure someone will tell me about a "kaboom" they've heard about or read about with an unsupported .40 cal. Glock chamber.....true or not, it seems to be accepted as gospel the way some people accept that all 1911s need to be "fixed" before using. See "Tard's" last post above for an example.

I don't know "Tard', but I'd venture to guess he probably does not own a 1911 and more than likely never has. Although I do understand there is a basis for such beliefs. But I'm completely convinced it has all grown from the issue that old military issued 1911s were never designed to be used with anything but ball ammo. This has been addressed in more modern products for many years now. Even my 1968 Llama "Mustang" size 1911 platform gun in .380 never had a hiccup with any kind of ammo. And that was a gun I expected trouble from even the day I bought it here from a fellow XDTalker (not too long ago...about two years -but enough rounds to consider it to be 100% reliable).

You paid good money for a very fine gun. Part of the price went to assure the gun would be put in working order by Kimber just in case. Why not get your money's worth....money you already spent..... and let them at least try and get it to function as it should? Hard to imagine that they wouldn't be able to get the thing to run for a lifetime at 100%. You pay your auto insurance, don't you let the insurance company pay for covered repairs if needed?

I have a friend who is an appraiser for Carmax. His motto is that "anything designed by and made by humans can and will eventually go wrong".

Maybe he's a bit skeptical, and few of us put the equivalent of what hundred of thousands of miles on a used car would equate to in our handguns. But his theory seems to make sense. We just have the advantage that it is far easier to maintain our handguns than it is to maintaini an automobile with tens of thousands of parts. But outside of nature, is anything truly perfect?

Many might say that the only man made things of perfection are the baseball diamond, and guns designed by John Moses Browning! LOL

Peace,
D.

[Tard]

Originally Posted by Delija

.....true or not, it seems to be accepted as gospel the way some people accept that all 1911s need to be "fixed" before using. See "Tard's" last post above for an example.

I don't know "Tard', but I'd venture to guess he probably does not own a 1911 and more than likely never has. Although I do understand there is a basis for such beliefs. ..

Peace,
D.

My beliefs are from simple observation: in classes I've attended and taught, when someone has a finicky gun it's been a Kimber .45 about half the time. By finicky, I mean a jam every other magazine.

I have owne 1911's for over 25 years and compete with my Colt Gold Cup in bullseye w/ lead-bullet reloads. I've had maybe 2 failures in 20 years with that gun -- right out of the box. Of course, it was made 20+ years ago.

[bigun]

Originally Posted by WilliamWallace

i hear ya man, i wanted to love this thing. i really did. it is the one gun in my collection that i have a passion for...

i may fix that in 7 weeks with a new SIG... we will see. it kind of depends on whether itchy stops posting freakin pics of his .308

That gun needs to go back to Kimber it is not throated properly, Box it up, do not pass go do not send it any where else that is a manufacturer defect. Kimber will make it right. I'm Sorry William I really thought it would be a simple adjustment but that is something that any reasonably skilled person that assembles 1911's should notice right away. Demand a return ticket. I gaurentee your jams will disappear immediately after that is fixed. Your extractor may need a little adjustment but damn.

[WilliamWallace]

that bad huh?

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Tard

My beliefs are from simple observation: in classes I've attended and taught, when someone has a finicky gun it's been a Kimber .45 about half the time. By finicky, I mean a jam every other magazine.

I have owne 1911's for over 25 years and compete with my Colt Gold Cup in bullseye w/ lead-bullet reloads. I've had maybe 2 failures in 20 years with that gun -- right out of the box. Of course, it was made 20+ years ago.

hey my friend...so it looks like my guess about your ownership of 1911s was off the mark. Sorry 'bout that.

And maybe you're right about Kimbers, but it's hard to understand how they can be so popular and demand such high prices if they are that unreliable.....guess I got lucky when I cancelled my Kimber order and went with the SA. But still...maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Kimbers were the top selling 1911s these days. Why would they be so widely embraced if they indeed really are unreliable?

As for your 20 year old Gold Cup....just goes to show anything is possible.

If you read my previous posts, you may have seen I had mentioned that the only 1911 I had owned before my fairly recent purchase (3 years ago or so) of my SA "Loaded" was a mid 1980s Colt Gold Cup....it was the only gun I ever had that was constant trouble. Jammed so much I seldom could empty a single magazine without a problem.

Fortunately I had acquired the gun in a trade with a co-worker/friend who was happy to take it back. It was virtually brand new when we made the trade so he knew he'd have no trouble getting the thing to work right (He was a gun-nut with a collection of hundreds of guns and at that time i think my entire gun collection consisted of a 9mm S&W 469 and a couple of Ruger MK pistols, so I expected complete reliability.

In retrospect, I wish I had more patience with that Colt and had it put into working order rather than giving up on it. But I was so used to the guns I had all being perfectly reliable that it seemed hopeless at the time.

Too bad I didn't know then what I know now. And $500 for a handgun seemed like a ton of money then (it was). How could I accept a gun that expensive that jammed? If I had kept it, I'm sure it would not only have been made right by Colt, but would be worth a pretty penny now (unlike the Smith 469 that was eventually recalled). LOL. -sad but true.

Originally Posted by WilliamWallace

that bad huh?

I'd agree after seeing those pics. The barrel's throat looks wrong. And the markings on the ramp look uneven as well. The ramp and throat have to be in perfect spec with each other in a 1911. The wear on the ramp seems to indicate that the whole system is out of whack. And this is not something anyone but Kimber should touch.

If you have the interest, it is something you can read about by finding posts by "1911 Tuner" - he talks about the relationship of ramp and throat often. A fraction of one degree of angle between the two being off, and you have a serious issue.....luckily it is (for you) a warranty issue. Possibly a big enough deal to warrant a new gun?

I can't begin to even attempt to guess how many times I have read that more guns are ruined by people "polishing" their ramps with a dremel and causing those angles to be wrong enough that many of those guns are ruined beyond salvage. Obviously you did no such thing....it's plain to see that the ramp was not polished at all, so anything that does not match up is a defect in the manufacture (as it appears to my untrained but somewhat well read eyes).

If I were in your shoes, I'd consider this good news. You have an obvious problem, not some mystery that someone at Kimber will waste time with scratching his (or her) head for countless hours trying to figure out through trial and error what minor little thing is out of spec and causing your gun to malfunction........this seems very plain to see with an obvious solution. I'm sure they will send back a gun (yours or a replacement) that runs like a top. They owe you that much IMO. It's what you paid for.


EDIT:
William:
Maybe you;ve seen all this before. But if not, I figured it might be of interest to you (and maybe others who might be curous about what you call the 'care and feeding' of the 1911). Only took a few seconds to find this info (it's all "stickied" so it was easy).

Thought you might find it interesting. Certainly seems pertinent to the discussion on how critical the right fit and angles are for a throat and ramp on a 1911 - two very short and sweet threads (maybe two pages each?) but gives the basic info that seems to apply.

Of course you can look through that same forum and get a PhD in 1911 mechanics if you have the patience to wade through the long and involved threads that follow (they go back years)- Obviously "1911 Tuner" is the moderator and the resident 1911 guru of the Internet (at least in the opinions of many, many owners and enthusiasts.

'Old Fluff" is also a character who knows his stuff and you will see his contributions as well. My guess is between those two guys there must be 100 years of experience smithing 1911 pistols (or close to it).

. The more you read (if you do at all), the more you will see the consistency between those who really know what they are talking about and those who just think they do because they took metal shop in junior high or whatever....maybe they have a lot of tools, which always builds confidence...LOL

The guys that actually have been working on these guns for a lifetime seem to agree on virtually every point: Which has always led me to believe there is a right way and then all the other ways.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=185506
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=185769

This (link below) is just a quick illustration of the proper angles....you can see how critical they are to be functional as designed -though there is a comment about how modifications can be made, but everything needs to balance. Adjust something here, it requires another adjustment there. (In this case IIRC it's about getting hollow-points to feed in an older military gun built for ball ammo - I could be wrong, just sort of rushed to add the links believing they were at least on the right path to the understanding of what appears to be ailing your Kimber......
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=189756

Hope you find this informative.

Peace,
D.