Are Kimber's really crap?

[chupacabrachus]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

....The internet "experts' also told me that my XD40 was going to rust and locing block was going to crack, my Glock 22 was going to k-boom and other "expert" advice that has never happened....so take it for what its worth!
- brickboy240

I don't claim to be an expert... but my xd40 did rust. Lots of folks' did. As far as my reasons for shying away from kimber, it's because I've seen them go down time after time at matches and at informal shooting at the range. I'm not saying they're crap, I'm just saying I don't trust one to function 100% of the time from the factory. I've seen plenty (that had made several trips to gun smiths and the factory generally) that functioned flawlessly.

I'm no gunsmith, but I think it might in part be due to the close tolerances. I've shot a handful of 1911's that had some very serious "battle rattle" that were very reliable.

I'm not trying to upset anyone here, just stating my observations. I'm not attacking anyone's 1911's or 1911's in general (I do like to give people trouble about them though...).

[bigun]

Originally Posted by danp

Partner at work bought a TLE (I advised him to go with an Operator) and found that out of the box it had feeding problems and sight issues. I looked at it and found that the feed ramp needed to be polished and the rear sight wasn't even close to being centered in the slide.

He sent it back to Kimber and they polished the feed ramp. They told him there was nothing wrong with the sights. We took it out and shot it and it now fed reliably, but it shot 4" left at 15 yards. I loosened up the set screw and attempted to move the sight. The rear sight was so tightly fitted in the dovetail, that I started having XD flashbacks. We couldn't move it at all. We're heading back to the range with a sight pusher next week.

I've heard enough Kimber horror stories like this to develop the opinion that Kimber's quality control is spotty.

I went to a gun show at Ottumwa about 6 years ago, one of the dealers had a bunch of pretty new 1911's on his table one of them was a beautifull Springer loaded stainless NIB. I picked the gun up to inspect it and the rear Novak sight slid almost completely out of it's dovetail. I would rather have it be to tight in the slide than to loose, you can always remove material but putting it back is way more difficult. The simple fact is all machines are made by man, Man is imperfect so expecting things that man makes to be perfect all of the time is not rational. How did the TLE shoot after pushing the sight over? I'm willing to bet a good deal better than either of you could hold.

[bigun]

Originally Posted by chupacabrachus

I don't claim to be an expert... but my xd40 did rust. Lots of folks' did. As far as my reasons for shying away from kimber, it's because I've seen them go down time after time at matches and at informal shooting at the range. I'm not saying they're crap, I'm just saying I don't trust one to function 100% of the time from the factory. I've seen plenty (that had made several trips to gun smiths and the factory generally) that functioned flawlessly.

I'm no gunsmith, but I think it might in part be due to the close tolerances. I've shot a handful of 1911's that had some very serious "battle rattle" that were very reliable.

I'm not trying to upset anyone here, just stating my observations. I'm not attacking anyone's 1911's or 1911's in general (I do like to give people trouble about them though...).

The 1911 has a very specific manual of arms, it also has a preference to be run wet especially when there is 0 slop between parts. It is not a gun that you clean, lightly wipe down with a slightly oily rag then go shoot. When properly maintained it is every bit as reliable as any other pistol ever manufactured. Maintenance also means learning a few simple adjustments Namely the extractor and knowing how to properly detail strip the gun and reassemble it. I would be willing to bet that other than the abortion of the external non adjustable extractor which did more to damage Kimbers rep than anything else Improper care of the weapons probably cause most of the 1911 issues. Some like Williams issues with his Warrior were easily worked out by someone that knew his way around a 1911. If you are planning to buy your first 1911 do a little research get a big book of the 1911 or one of the DVD's . Buy some good magazines although I have never had a problem with either Mil spec, Chip McCormic, or Kimber factory mags and most if not all properly adjusted 1911's wont either. Hint if your 1911 wont run with cheap magazines the problem most likely isnt the magazine but an improperly adjusted extractor.

[danp]

Originally Posted by bigun

I went to a gun show at Ottumwa about 6 years ago, one of the dealers had a bunch of pretty new 1911's on his table one of them was a beautifull Springer loaded stainless NIB. I picked the gun up to inspect it and the rear Novak sight slid almost completely out of it's dovetail. I would rather have it be to tight in the slide than to loose, you can always remove material but putting it back is way more difficult. The simple fact is all machines are made by man, Man is imperfect so expecting things that man makes to be perfect all of the time is not rational. How did the TLE shoot after pushing the sight over? I'm willing to bet a good deal better than either of you could hold.

My SA Operator needed to have the set screw tightened on the rear sight before I shot it, not a big deal. The problem with the Kimber is that it is so tight it can't be adjusted.

I shot about 4" groups at 15 yards offhand with the Kimber. I did about a 2" group with my Operator, but I am more used to it.

I do not expect 100% perfection, but the reason for quality control inspections is to pick up things like unpolished feed ramps. None of this would prevent me from buying a Kimber, it will just make me inspect the gun more thoroughly before I lay my money down.

[bigun]

Originally Posted by danp

My SA Operator needed to have the set screw tightened on the rear sight before I shot it, not a big deal. The problem with the Kimber is that it is so tight it can't be adjusted.

I shot about 4" groups at 15 yards offhand with the Kimber. I did about a 2" group with my Operator, but I am more used to it.

I do not expect 100% perfection, but the reason for quality control inspections is to pick up things like unpolished feed ramps. None of this would prevent me from buying a Kimber, it will just make me inspect the gun more thoroughly before I lay my money down.

Agreed my SA Loaded is the last 1911 I'll ever purchase sight unseen for the same reasons.

[Cajun XDM]

I own and carry Kimbers, a 3" CDP and Pro Carry II stainless. These guns have been a pleasure to own and shoot. Very reliable and accurate...just my experience.

[MagicPie]

I've owned 4 Kimbers, with currently still having 2.
Eclipse Ultra and Covert Custom, the 2 sold were Tactical Pro and a Raptor Custom.
All have giving me no trouble, and shot fantastic, and were never really babied, just well lubed.

The Eclipse is the 3" barrel, is about 5 years old, and used for daily carry.
I have never a had real problem, as long as the recoil spring is replaced often. From time to time, I do get a FTF with Speer Golddots, but a gentle bump on the slide tends to get it in battery.

The Covert, is my one and only Aluminum framed 1911, and it much beefier then other typical Aluminum framed 1911 I have shot. While, I'm not fan of the aluminum, the gun has giving no problem, and is currently my must accurate gun.

All the Kimber have had their share of .45 +p as well with no issues.

STOCK MAGS SUCK AND ARE THE CAUSE OF MOST PROBLEMS

Kimber KimPro-Tac mags are fantastic however, and beside Wilson the only mags I use.

My dealer/range is a master dealer of Kimber as well. It's not uncommon to see the entire place full of them, and I can not recall anyone having abnormal issues, and even then rare.

Having said this, my next couple of 1911 will be Springfield and/or Colt.

[Lazarus]

I've owned a Custom II and my next couple 1911s will be Kimbers until I have a problem with them. Thats said I know that not every gun will run perfect out of the box so until I have MAJOR problems I'll stick with Kimber. They are tightly fit which attributes to their accuracy but could cause problems.

[gigster]

I know there are plenty of happy Kimber owners ouy there, but my experience with two Pro TLE RLII's was terrible. Here's a post from back when I was wrestling with reliability:

January 26, 08
My second Pro TLE/RLII 4 inch went back to Kimber yesterday. The first one was replaced By Dennis in the custom shop after three trips back to Kimber.

On the first gun each time they fixed one problem they introduced another.

The second one has been a little better but so far completely unacceptable reliability for a $1000 pistol (I paid $930 locally).

Lately, it's FTF's where the round sticks nose-down on the feed ramp.

Steve in customer relations at Kimber ask me to install a new recoil spring (22 lbs) and shoot 100 rounds of Winchester White Box 230 gr, FMJ.

I distributed the 100 rounds evenly through all four mags and had a failure rate of 4%. Each magazine failed once during the 100 rounds.

Twice the round stuck on the ramp, then a second later, when the new spring overcame whatever the obstacle was, the slide closed, chambering the round. (that was weird)

Once the round just stuck nose-down, low and right on the ramp

The last FTF might actually be called a failure to chamber. This time the round got past the ramp and then halfway chambered with the nose UP.

At this point this is just entertainment for me. Until I've got 500-1000 flawless, CONSECUTIVE rounds through this gun, I can't and won't depend upon it for SD.

Now I just want to see how long it takes for Kimber to figure out how to make this friggin thing go bang everytime . . . With hollow points . . Preferably 230 gr. federal Hydra Shoks.

Between gun 1 and 2, I bought an XD45 compact that currently occupies the first position as my primary carry gun. In second position is my trusty, 15 year-old Sig 228. Both have been perfect from day one.


Fast forward to March '09

It's not that a Kimber can't be made to work reliably, It's just that you can't depend on Kimber to make it that way. I ended up shipping one gun back 3 times, then the replacement gun went back twice, and then I was done with Dennis and the Kimber Custom Shop.

Every conversation went almost immediately to what I was doing wrong. I must admit, it was rather entertaining to hear the explanations why I, an almost 50 year old lifetime firearms enthusiast, was somehow unable to reliably make a gun go bang with factory ammo.

My local smith here finally made it flawless, but it took a bit of money and parts. Nowlin extractor, Ed Brown mainspring housing to replace the plastic one that cracked at 800 rounds, a JP industries elevated mag catch so the magazines would seat up where they should. Re-staked the plunger tube that was loose at 1200 rounds. Front sight came off at 900 rounds. Polished the ramp, and chamber, etc. etc.

One major Kimber oversight on their four inch guns is the recoil spring specification. It comes with a spring that was designed for a 3.5 inch gun, so there is almost no forward pressure on the slide in battery. Wolff makes a special spring for 4 inch Kimber that solved that one.

It shoots great now, but I would NEVER buy or recommend a Kimber.

[GimmieBoost]

I use to own a Ultra Carry II... never again...